Surely not hyping Cousins as a guy who could be Top 5 More so still not overly impressed with Matt Ryan and think they're already essentially in the same tier, especially after Ryan's follow up campaign to his MVP season Cousins didn't have a good year this past season either, but he has been above average in 2 of the 3 seasons that he's been a starter Either way, evaluators do take the film, peer over the system and player personnel around the QB, and ultimately use foresight to make decisions at times We just saw Garoppolo become the highest paid QB ever on the strength of 7 games as a starter
Interesting. I was a Ryan hater but would easily consider him top 5 now. Are you not big into football analytics/PFF?
PFF in particular loves Ryan..I take some of their info, apply it to some of the other info from other sites, piece it all together as best I can, as well use my own eye test when I'm watching games. It's hard to blame a guy or dock him points because his best pass catcher is on the shelf and he's out there just trying to make it happen for his team. Cousins' and Ryan's numbers are eerily similar in a lot of ways over @ PFF, both pocket guys who see about the same amount of time to throw the football on average. As you see below there, Ryan's turnover-worthy throw % is still A1 even without his average time to throw being great, which isn't surprising..with Julio pulling coverage all over the place and making defenses show their hands early and often, Ryan really should know where he's going with the ball before just about every snap thanks to the attention Julio garners. Of course, they also have a couple all around HBs in ATL. That's a luxury that Cousins hasn't had. Matt Stafford used to similarly benefit from having Megatron, but Stafford also had some Big Ben in him as well and would just force the issue at times. A good amount of guys that have elite weapons that expose defenses pre-snap, do pretty well in the turnover- worthy throw % category..Alex Smith, for instance, who is essentially captain of the " just above average/solid QB " club. But then of course there are also guys like Big Ben ( again) that'll try to fit balls into little windows to give his talented WRs a chance to make a play..in turn, hurting his turnover- worthy throw %. Mahomes is about to be that high risk/high reward guy in KC. Cousins sort of falls in the middle with his approach, however, he hasn't had near as many elite weapons around him as the aforementioned QBs, so his overall numbers suffer some @ PFF. All of these numbers must be applied the right way..considering system, personnel, QB MO as far as his approach, etc. Away from PFF for a sec, Ryan is a guy that was putting out low 70-ish QBRs annually to start his career, however, he's been down in the 60's in 2 of the last 3 seasons. Of course, he dropped the career year last year with the 80+ QBR grade. Cousins has been in those low 70's, as far as QBR goes, in 2 of the 3 years that he's been a starter. Not average, or below average, or even good, but just above average..or " solid ', rather. The " solid tier ", that's where those two are for me. I believe that if you take Cousins and drop him into Ryan's situation, Julio Jones would be just as happy.
All that said..Vikings don't have Julio Jones. Vikings also don't have the dual HB talent that ATL has. So whatever I think about Cousins and how he would fit in Ryan's place..we're ultimately talking about your Vikings and how Cousins would fit in there. Granted, the Vikings' weapons are superior to what Cousins had in DC and I do like their weapons. I don't really know that Cousins would take those weapons and elevate his status..but I also don't know that he'd have to. He could go there and be Eli.
Yeah I suppose PFF is higher on Ryan than most other sites that I’ve seen, I just tend to view QB’s in classes of elite, and then a large group of guys who in any given year can be the 5th or 20th best quarterback in the league. The sample size in football is so small that I’m not sure we have enough data to truly assess anyone completely like we do in baseball when we get 600+ PA’s a season out of some guys. Cam Newton, Matt Stafford, Andy Dalton, the list goes on with guys who one year looked top 6 and the next year looked average to below average. I think my argument would be that one guy having back to back top 5 seasons sells me on him a lot more than another being between 10-15 two times. Sort of arbitrary but I think it makes some sense.
My elite group is Rodgers-Brady-Brees-Big Ben. No shockers there. Basically the mainstays. I don't take that group any further than that. After that, for me, there's the small-ish " good group " with Rivers and Russell Wilson. I pretty much split after that group. The " young, talented guys " with Wentz, Carr, Dak, etc. Then the " solid, above average, experienced guys " with Newton, Ryan, Stafford, Cousins, Alex Smith, etc. Just gives a bit more clarity rather than jumbling up a large group of guys going in so many different directions with their career arcs. Newton and Ryan, to me, have gone from highly ridiculed to highly overrated in pretty short order ( Newton now back to being ridiculed) thanks to those MVP seasons and tremendously talented teams around them. I don't think your way is overly arbitrary, it just doesn't seem as if you put much stock into personnel surrounding guys, system match, and all the other factors that go into QB'ing. That you just sort of try to keep it black and white and to the analytics, similarly with your QB list as well. You don't think having one of the most gifted WRs in NFL history has elevated Ryan at all? He took a nice sized step back this year without Kyle Shanahan as well.
Couldn’t you argue, considering supporting casts which you use against Ryan, that Big Ben has put up worse numbers the last 3 years with the best surrounding talent in the league? He has the best receiver since Randy Moss (IMO, and Julio isn’t far behind), arguably the best running back in the league and has had far better secondary receivers than Sanu. I’d go Brady and Rodgers Brees, Ben, Ryan and Russell Wilson A group of maybe ten guys that includes Cousins and Cam
Big Ben's numbers in 2015 were pretty damn good. But again, Big Ben is that high risk/high reward guy a lot of the time. He will gamble. And because of his propensity to try and force throws into smaller windows to give his talented playmakers a chance to make plays..his willingness to play a little more sandlot style, take hits, shrug off pass rushers, he gets banged up and ends up having to play hurt at times..his numbers will take that hit. But for those same reasons ( talents), coaches love him, players love him, and he can make up for a lot of faults within the team or season..like when Le'Veon Bell gets hurt or suspended for the weeeeee-duh ( as Stephen A. would say). Bell played just 5 games in 2015 and missed another 5 games in 2016, so Ben has been without his full complement of guys a bit in recent seasons. Of course, you have that idiot Martavis Bryant who was suspended and out of the league altogether for a time as well. And then Ben, himself, missed a good amount of action because of MCL thing back in 2015, but he was great that year. Ben's play style also helps a diminutive Antonio break free from so much attention, shake loose and get open a lot of times, so they make a good team. It's not like Antonio is Julio's size out there..Julio is LeBron James out there on the football field. Anyway, Ben has some Favre in him from a playing style, some gunslinger. The circumstances are just different..the talents of the players in question are different. Ryan doesn't force as much and just doesn't have the same individual talents at his disposal. Can't look at these guys in black and white, bro. Too much nuance in the game. You seem to want to grade them on a baseball player's type of scale, but baseball is much more of an individual sport. Football takes a little more context. But I can go with that Top 2 that you have there and then Brees, Ben and Russell Wilson rounding out the Top 5 a tier lower. I'm good with that. You called your beliefs a bit arbitrary earlier..well, watch this..28-3 in the Super Bowl, bro. With full responsibility and control of his offense, the ability to audible to run plays, etc. to seal the win VS the Patriots last year and bring Atlanta it's first Super Bowl win. Julio makes the greatest catch I've ever seen in my life to save Ryan's ass..and then Ryan takes a sack and pushes ATL out of FG range. Not a Ryan hater..I just see him for what he is. He's not a bum by any means, but he's not in that Wilson, Ben, Brees group either..at least not for me.
Carson Wentz, even with his acl tear was past approaching tier 1. He was the MVP of the league until he went down last season
Maybe approaching VRP's Wilson/Brees/Ben tier, but hard to say that he would've deserved to get in there as well on the strength of 1 season. Definitely love Wentz's ability, though. Personally, I don't know if 1 MVP season should get you into tier 1..I lean towards no pretty heavily. I mean Alex Smith was putting up MVP-ish numbers and in that MVP discussion as well for a chunk of the season. If Smith had not allowed that skid in the L column and somehow won MVP, he still wouldn't have been tier 1, and he more than likely would've still lost his job to Mahomes. Back when Rich Gannon came out of nowhere to win MVP with Chucky and the RAIDERS, he was still seen as a guy that was notches below Favre. Edit: Funny thing about that MVP season for Gannon is he may not have won it all if McNabb hadn't gotten hurt, so Philly has definitely seen its share of Eagle QBs get hurt during MVP campaigns.
This NCAA scandal is so tired. FBI probing a bunch of BS..need to be focusing 110% on a lot of things that are far more dire
Oooooo KC is trading Marcus Peters to the Rams, oh shit They really signed Amerson to replace Peters? I can't believe that..they have to be drafting a corner fairly early
Adam SchefterVerified account@AdamSchefter 4m4 minutes ago Marcus Peters to LA Rams trade is now officially agreed to, per source; cannot be processed until March 14. But Peters expected to be a Ram. Wow. KC going into super rebuild mode..they should've kept Doug Pederson for HC and gotten rid of Andy Reid
Peters is an All-Pro knucklehead going back to college days. But if Wade Phillips could reign in Talib, maybe he could do the same with Peters.
Potentially going to be tougher for Wade to rein in a Peters in Los Angeles as opposed to reining in a Talib in Denver just based on the trouble LA can offer a young, immature guy. Rams better be keeping extra, extra, extra close tabs on Peters. His hometown is Oakland as well, so he's a hop, skip and a jump away now. Anytime you leave Kansas City for Los Angeles, you are not mad..so I have to question whether this is even a teaching moment for Peters. He really should be celebrating, TBH
Not exactly rebuilding, but I am freaking pissed right now. There is no way they got fair value for him
Yeah " super rebuild " was strong. If that were the case Kelce would headed out of there too as well as maybe big money Berry. But it's a rebuild to a lesser degree, or a reload because they have lost Derrick Johnson and it looks like Hali is heading out too AFC West is damn interesting all the way around
21 including playoffs. next closest had 14. also 5 FF's in that time, which is insane for any non pass rusher.
