DODGERS The CY YOUNG Thread

They may cancel each other out...Arrieta may squeak by.
The official scorer may play a part in this, incredbly. Faggot.

 

Buster taking Kershaw...

Kershaw complicating Cy Young conversation
by Buster Olney, Senior Writer, ESPN Insider




A few years ago, after Clayton Kershaw won his first Cy Young Award, ESPN asked whether we could tag along during one of his winter workouts. Kershaw arrived at the indoor football practice facility for his old high school, Highland Park in Dallas, and he was alone.

No personal trainer. No public relations person. No workout guru. No entourage. Nobody assigned to hold his glove. Nobody but Kershaw, who put himself through a few hours of work lifting weights, running sprints and long-tossing into a net.

Kershaw is not about frills. He is about substance, so it makes sense that he generated an old-fashioned complete-game win Wednesday night as the Dodgers squeezed the Giants again -- likely out of the NL West race. Kershaw threw 132 pitches and struck out 15 batters in what may be remembered as one of the final nails in San Francisco's playoff hopes.

Last week, two evaluators who saw Kershaw work against the Cubs said they believe he is throwing the ball better than at any point in his career, because he commanded the ball inside to right-handed hitters, as well as outside. "I've never seen him able to control that side of the strike zone that well," said one of the staffers.

Kershaw's recent performances continue to complicate what will be an increasingly difficult choice for the National League Cy Young Award voters, among Kershaw, Zack Greinke and Jake Arrieta.

A look at some category leaders in the NL:

• ERA: 1. Greinke 1.59; 2. Arrieta 2.11; 3. Kershaw 2.18
• WHIP: 1. Greinke 0.85; 2. Kershaw 0.90; 3. Arrieta 0.94
• Innings: 1. Kershaw 194; 2. Greinke 186 2/3; 3. Max Scherzer 184; 4. Arrieta 183
• Strikeouts: 1. Kershaw 251; 2. Scherzer 219; 3. Madison Bumgarner 200; 4. Arrieta 190
• xFIP (expected fielding independent pitching): 1. Kershaw 2.05; 2. Arrieta 2.74; 3. Bumgarner 2.91
• fWAR (FanGraphs' WAR): 1. Kershaw 7.1; 2. Arrieta 5.4; 3. Greinke 5.3
• Wins (I wouldn't factor them into a ballot, but some writers would):1. Arrieta 17; 2. Bumgarner 16; 3. Greinke 15 (tied with Gerrit Cole and Michael Wacha)

Following Kershaw's effort against the Giants, I'd rank the NL Cy Young ballot this way, if I had a vote (full disclosure: I haven't had a vote for any award since 1996).

1. Kershaw
2. Greinke
3. Arrieta

 

At this point if Kershaw doesn't win it'll be looked at like when Pedro didn't win the MVP in 2000

 

Crazy idea...co CYs?

 

Just give CK the NL Cy young and ZG the AL Cy Young.. fuck it. And give the MVP to the GuggenGods for signing these two. I just hope they re-sign Zack cause he is fucking amazing!

 

Might have to change dieties there, mate. Nedgod, I think.

 

Lawdy...Great green light.

 

The juggernaut offense tonight...me likey

 

Mat Latos should win the NL Cy Young tbh

 

I was wondering; as we head for a divisional championship and a spot in the post season (hopefully we hold on, although I do believe our NLW tilted schedule will kick our asses), if we get eliminated by poor BP performance, (or non-offense), is it really important which one wins the CY award?
All this sturm and drang it seems, is a trophy piece for the shelf of one of these guys.
What does it matter if the seemingly endless string of failures continues...?

 

RJ/Shilling is always the combo that comes to mind when I think of great 1-2's, since I actually saw it. Their postseason performances were unbelievable. I think you could have paired those two with any 23 random players, and they would've won the WS. What Kershaw and Greinke are doing feels like that caliber, but it's still the regular season. If they continue like this in the postseason and we win a WS, then we can start the discussion.

 

Not crazy, but very unlikely.

Co-MVP's Keith Hernandez and Willie Stargell -1979
Co -Cy Young's Mike Cuellar and Denny McLain - 1969

Co-winners on the same team???

Na...na...na...NOT gonna happen.

 

Completely lost me with that sentence..

 

Clayton Kershaw’s true competition isn’t from this century
By Joel Sherman

September 5, 2015 | 5:50pm






Clockwise, from top left: Sandy Koufax, Tom Seaver, Clayton Kershaw, Don Drysdale and Greg MadduxPhoto: Getty Images (3); AP; NY Post file



The reaction to another Clayton Kershaw tour de force Wednesday — striking out 15 and going the distance on 132 pitches to pretty much eliminate the Giants from the NL West race in the first week of September — was to wonder if he was now the Cy Young frontrunner.

But that kind of misses the point, like seeing just the first 10 floors of the Freedom Tower.

Kershaw no longer is playing just for the 2015 Cy Young. He is playing to be Cy Young.

His competition is not teammate Zack Greinke and the Cubs’ Jake Arrieta. That is too limiting in scope, to just this year. The competition is Greg Maddux and Tom Seaver and Sandy Koufax and Lefty Grove and the best who have ever worked 60 feet, 6 inches from home plate.

“Twenty or 30 years from now, the next generation will think of Kershaw the we talk about Koufax, Seaver, [Nolan] Ryan,” said Dan O’Dowd, who as general manager of the Rockies from 2008-14 saw Kershaw’s first seven seasons up close in the NL West. “You are dealing with consistency of performance, an overwhelming competitive fire, a great passion for the game, a great teammate, a great ambassador for the game. The only thing that can derail him from being one of the greatest of all time is injury.”

Sometimes it is hard to appreciate in real time, but we are watching a historic pitcher at the peak of his powers.

Yes, I know, he has not been good in the postseason and that will have to change — beginning this year — for him to remove the one smudge on his résumé.

But are you going to define a pitcher by eight starts in October or the 236 so far on his regular-season ledger?

“The thing I don’t think he gets enough praise for is just how good of a pitcher he is,” a scout said. “His stuff is obviously overwhelming, but he has a really good feel for the craft of pitching. He throws a ton of strikes, he commands everything, and he can make an adjustment on the fly. This is not the type of guy who is going to fall off the map, he’s built to be great for a really long time.

“If he stays healthy — always a huge if — it’s hard to imagine him not being one of the all-time greats given how young, talented and committed he is.”


KershawPhoto: AP

Kershaw has been brilliant for the length of his eight-year career, a genius for seven and — well — Koufaxian now for the last five.

As a lefty and a Dodger, Kershaw is often bonded to Koufax, who actually has become one of the leaders of the Clayton Kershaw fan club.

Koufax created his legacy over his final six seasons (1961-66), when he won three Cy Youngs and finished third once (in fairness, before 1967 there was a single Cy Young given to cover both leagues). In the past four years, Kershaw has won three Cys and finished second once, and likely will wind up no worse than third this year.

“It goes beyond the stuff in the comparison to Koufax, it is about will and having to wrestle the ball out of their hands,” said Joe Torre, who faced Koufax as a player and was Kershaw’s first Dodgers manage. “The makeup is essentially that he wills himself to success. Long-term contract, short-term contract, [Kershaw is] basically going to take the ball and give you everything he has got. He has no back off in him. He is strictly a very aggressive pitcher and I mean pitcher — not thrower. If you spend any time with him he is special and belongs in the group of the best I have seen with [Juan] Marichal, Koufax, [Don] Drysdale, [Bob] Gibson. He certainly fits that group.”

Koufax had an ERA-plus of 156 for those elite six seasons. I use ERA-plus because it is a fairer stat to compare players of different eras since it factors in the league and ballpark, then gives a result against league average — an ERA-plus of 156 is 56 percent better than league average.


KoufaxPhoto: AP

Kershaw’s career ERA-plus is 154, it is 164 for the past six years and 172 since 2011 when he won his first Cy. The only pitchers in major league history to have a better five-year run for ERA-plus are Pedro Martinez from 1999-2003 (228), Maddux from 1994-98 (202), Randy Johnson from 1998-2002 (174) and Grove from 1935-39 (173).

Kershaw is not yet through his age-27 season, but just to give an idea, that career 154 ERA-plus is bettered through the same age by just two pitchers in history — Walter Johnson (176) and Martinez (156).

Kershaw has had an ERA-plus of at least 133 in each of the past seven years. Whitey Ford did it eight times in his whole career, Seaver nine, Maddux and Christy Mathewson 10.

At this moment, Kershaw is tied with Martinez for the best career ERA-plus among starters. Of course, he has a lot of miles to go. But that includes what appears several more in his prime.

There actually was a narrative earlier this season wondering what was wrong with Kershaw. He was 2-3 with a 4.32 ERA through nine starts. Did I mention that Koufax is a leader of the Kershaw fan club? This is what Koufax told the Los Angeles Times at that point: “Before the season is over, those numbers are going to be right where they always are.”

In his 18 outings since, Kershaw is 10-3 with a 1.26 ERA, a .175 batting average against and — get this — 178 strikeouts and 18 walks in 135 2/3 innings. In other words as brilliant as ever.

On Aug. 23, Kershaw said his underachieving, $300 million squad needed to play with greater “urgency.” He offered that after Los Angeles had lost earlier that day when Kershaw had allowed one run in eight innings, striking out 10 and walking none.

What stands out to so many around the Dodgers is not just the greatness in Kershaw’s arm, but how competitive he is and how much he cares about winning. So if you say those words that challenge others, you have to rise yourself.

In the two starts since that statement, Kershaw has faced the wild card-bound Cubs and the Giants — the lone NL West team that is a threat to the Dodgers. He has pitched 17 innings, yielded two runs, walked two and struck out 29.

That left him at 251 strikeouts. That is the most by a Dodger since Koufax fanned 317 in his final season, 1966. It also means that with either five or six starts left, depending likely on just when (if) the Dodgers clinch the NL West, Kershaw has a chance to become the first major leaguer to whiff 300 since Johnson and Curt Schilling in 2002.

No disrespect to Greinke and Arrieta, but these are the names that Kershaw dances with now — Johnson and Schilling, Pedro and Unit, Seaver and Grove. It is not about one Cy Young any more with Kershaw, it is about being compared to the original.