FEDIT POLITICS Thread

Discussion in 'Los Angeles DODGERS' started by CapnTreee, Aug 12, 2016.

  1. CapnTreee

    CapnTreee Guest

    Fuck I've missed some good exchanges.. where to start?
    Note 1) leaving aside @rube bent on Israel.. I'll come back to that.. maybe. Not sure that there is much if any to gain
    Note 2) leaving aside @LAdiablo bent on sexuality.. too many views to address cleanly cuz he's been a perv for longer than I've known him. And that is a long time. Also not claiming not to be a perv myself.. it's just off topic ATM.

    Let's start with the issue of Trumps Wall.. because in my head I think that there is common ground.
    May I respectfully call out @rube for claiming that walls do not work. Fact: they do. Even the Great Wall of China served successfully for centuries to regulate entrance and control flow. Hadrian's Wall too. What else is required?

    I've traveled to over 30 countries now and ALL have demarcated borders.. except the USA. Why?
    ZERO humans I've met in my life argue for open borders while removing their own front and back doors. Thus 100% of open border proponents are hypocrites. 100%. Now I'm open to learning that @rube has taken all of his doors off their hinges and burned them... but I'm not ever going to see that so future arguments in support of open borders will be run through the 'hypocrite' filter before considering those opinions.

    Next
    So true again.
    This highlights how ALL of the Democrats and Republicans are hypocrites (news flash= water is wet) because NONE of THEIR ancestors were told to leave and not try again for 10 years. This 'shared' policy is broken and neither side cares because it's all about pandering to the perceived votes. Completely two faced. Our ancestors, mine German and Irish, were permitted entrance at once upon arrival, given a tax ID# and let in freely and told to play by the American rules. What changed? Corruption in DC, nothing else.
    It accomplishes that cessation of a huge gray economy which is far more money than the cost of a wall. When you let 'new' people play by fair rules they tend to do so because 'that' is human nature. When you yank them around with no solution in sight they tend to play fast and loose.. which is where we stand today. You'd do the same if you were kept out of the greatest country in the world. Claim otherwise only after leaving the USA.
    Thank you. This is also a truth that I get slammed for. Umm by you, too if I recall. Now blast me again as being a Libtard or whatever while claiming taxation is illegal. Both sides hate the Centrist with equal fury.
    Not sure that I completely agree.. except with the first and final sentences.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2019
  2. rube

    rube DSP Legend Staff Member Administrator

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    You shocked... So am I.
    Specially after your deep nuanced 'analogy' on gays. On this subject though there is no nuance right?
    No latitude for disagreement.
    Or else you can't keep it civil?
    Did you all of a sudden lose your ability to speak to me without losing your shit?
    Did I offend a holy cow?
    Is this a topic that you can't speak on without losing your political correctness?
    Is it verboten and taboo?
    Funny enough but civility comes from being inside the city walls.
    Why is this subject causing you not to speak for fear you will want to 'take it outside' the boundaries of civility?

    You implied in a rather weasely way something that is pretty heavy.
    Now you wish to leave the convo.
    Again rather weasely.

    You are reacting very defensively.
    I have no point of reference to your question of "are we occupying the US".
    Who is "we"?
    You essentially force me to assume what you are implying to even have this conversation.
    Why are you taking this on as if I'm talking about you?
    And why are you further making the weasely implication that you are making by talking about a US occupation when i mentioned an occupation in Israel?

    These are cheap ass political hack moves. Kinda shocked to see you lose your ability to reason and devolve into casting aspersions when it comes to this one particular subject.

    Speak to me like like you always do.
    What is stopping you?
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  3. THINKBLUE

    THINKBLUE DSP Gigolo

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    Wow...
    SMH
     
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  4. rube

    rube DSP Legend Staff Member Administrator

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    You missed is right.
    I've never said I'm about open borders.
    I said walls dont work.
    I said they never have.
    I said trump is lying about building the wall. It is for politics.
    The wall will ultimately be a fence and more border agents and air support.
    And all the marks on the right will be pissed that trump let them down and all the marks on the left will be gloating about how they killed Trump's wall while trump still gets the money and everything else important to him that he needs to have more power. spinning it as how reasonable and great he is at coming together and reaxhingracrreaxhingracross the isle and making a deal that's best for the American people.
    Like he did with the dream act controversy.

    If you believe it's a massive nationwide wall of iron and concrete or bust then you have eaten the political bait and are marking territory for your side.
     
  5. CapnTreee

    CapnTreee Guest

    [​IMG]

    OK this wall is muy importante tambien

    Ready your return salvos.. LOL
     
  6. LAdiablo

    LAdiablo descarado

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    the fact is Israel took an unwanted piece of sand and turned it into an oasis
    the locals in the area can't stand it because it makes their form of "civilization" look bad
    they want nothing less than the elimination of Israel
    i count many Israelis amongst my friends and while some of the stereotypes people have about them are true they are typically an extremely decent people
    i take exception to people that call them occupiers and aggressors
    they have every right to live where they are although i have no idea why they'd want to be in that hell hole of a region
    actually i know why but thats besides the point
    i'm not being weaselly at all when i say i despise people w that pov
    they are the same people that point to the jews every time something goes wrong in the world
    man up and recognize they are visionary and shrewd crew or become another of the jealous sniveling detractors
    i tend to bristle when i hear idiots casually spit venom at a group so universally despised for their success that an extermination took place
    call me whatever you want Rube and i'll just ask out of the conversation
     
  7. rube

    rube DSP Legend Staff Member Administrator

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    I have only called you weasely.
    If I wanted to call you something I would say it and not imply it then run away.
    That is weasely.

    You are right about everything you said concerning the great achievements of the Jewish people and the state of Israel too.
    They have done a lot of great things. But I never said otherwise.
    See we agree. Jews are great people and I have black friend.

    I rarely talk about stuff that happens in the state of Israel because if the comment is not 100% pro Israel in every facet without any nuance then you are treated like a jew hating anti semite. And that is bullshit.

    Why do you keep building a straw man by using things that I have not remotely said in order to prove me a racist jew hater. Why would I hate jews?
    'Idiots spitting venom'... really man, is that what im doing?
    You are spinning conspiracy theories at me.
    I said walls of the size and scope you are referring to have never worked and that they are political tools of mythbuilding.
    George Washington cherry tree story is a myth for nationbuilding as is the idea that you can see the great wall of china from the moon.

    I would challenge you to quote any of these posts you have found offensive where I said or even implied anything negative about the people of Israel or about the jewish people or their faith.
    I think you got confused. I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt many times over.
    But you are being a weasel and keep saying things in a weasely way.
    You say you dont know why anyone would want to live in that hell hole then you say you do know but dont want to say?
    Say. Why do Jews want to live in Israel?
    Or don't say. But why tease? Now im curious. That is not sportsmanlike.

    Lets break it down to the bitty titty.
    I said that Israel was occupying.
    I believe this is the only thing that you have taken offense to.
    From those words you have heaped a bunch of extra baggage. Your baggage, not mine.
    Israel has legal title to land in the Levant. This is a fact.
    The other fact is that there is land in the Levant set aside for the people of the land by the same laws that gave the State of Israel its title.
    More facts are that the government has taken over large swaths of the land that does not legally belong to them.
    In that land they are occupiers. This is obvious to the majority of people. Which alone is not proof of anything. But its not alone.

    In every historical, biblical, or Jewish rabbinical work the term 'people of the land' refers to the non Jewish semi nomadic Palestinians.
    The Jews are always the conquerors/immigrants/refugees that come and take over parts of the Levant.
    Israel is the government, the State of Israel.
    You said 'we' in one of these posts, are you part of the government or a citizen of Israel?
    Then you said 'they' in another so maybe you are Jewish and your offense came through there?
    Maybe part Jewish?
    You have Jewish, Israeli citizen friends then?
    I never said anything about these people. Much less anything bad.
    I say things about our government in the US that are not always very nice too.
    And about the government of Mexico and El Salvador where my families are from I say much worse things.
    They were Catholic and then turned ultra protestant and I hit both of them very hard sometimes... although I try not to anymore.

    You can be critical of certain things about me. It does not mean that you hate me or all my family or anyone else that shares my heritage.
    Israel does a lot of things great, just not this specific one thing I mentioned.
    You got triggered though.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  8. LAdiablo

    LAdiablo descarado

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    i'm not jewish
    i did not get triggered i just chose not to debate you on your sentiment
    certain things make me go silent
    call it whatever you want it makes no difference to me
     
  9. rube

    rube DSP Legend Staff Member Administrator

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    Thank you player 2 for your quarter.

    Separation of Church/State is not in the constitution.
    It is in Thomas Jefferson private papers now immortalized.
    The spirit of what is in the constitution and what Jefferson commented on is very poorly characterized by this meme.
    This is the myth that people believe. We believe in tons of them.

    You have to think of the separation as the same as the one that separates the 3 realms of power in the US federal government.
    It is to prevent one group from corrupting the second group into becoming like the first group but even worse.

    If people in the church want power/money/intrigue, etc... they will have ties to the government or to political/financial/corporate leadership.
    This always corrupts the church.
    The church also represents the common man. While the state represents 'the man'.
    The common man and his tendency to form masses with religion but also with other modern ideas that border on religions. Like science, small business, sports, entertainment, unions, schools, etc...
    These groups also get corrupted by ties to corporate money and high power political leaders.
    The Fed Government should not interfere with the NFL.
    If there is a statue of the ten commandments somewhere in a federal piece of land it has nothing to do with separation of church and state.

    The big point is that the STATE is like your backyard where you have your livestock eating and your guard dogs living and your employees working.
    You have then with good water and kibble and a few nice grassy places for fun with some shade for rest and sturdy shelter fenced and gated for defense from elements.
    The CHURCH is your home, your castle, your temple. Your bedroom is your holy place and your bathroom is your holy of holies.
    Outside of the STATE is the wilderness, the elements, straight chaos or stray cows.

    If the workers in the yard dont respect the border then the guard dogs will get out and the wilderbeasts will get into the yard.
    If the homeowners dont respect their border then the guard dogs will get into the house and tear the kitchen apart and without them the wilderbeasts will overcome the workers and will get into your home and get into your bedroom where the worker have given chase to and upon tiring felt the need to take a dump on your most private of porcelain thrones.
    Followed by the beasts and dogs smelling the shit and thinking its a marking competition and get in on the act.

    That is why Jefferson wrote that thing about church and state.
    The government should not force your business, your league, your organization, your church or other private entity to do what it does not want to do.
    Likewise these groups cannot compel the government to use its immense power to do the bidding of the group.

    Of course this happens everyday.
    And the judicial system made it 'legal'.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2019
  10. rube

    rube DSP Legend Staff Member Administrator

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    You didn't go silent man, you made the implications you know you made.
    I was not engaging you in debate. You engaged me.
    You are still spinning things the other way because you made a mistake.
    Normally fuck it, you made a mistake, we all do.
    Except this mistake is not a little thing.
    And you want to leave it sort of ambiguous.
    It is not.
    You posted a list of racist shit you implied applied to me.
    That is not going silent.

    Blah, I don't know why you being so weasely man, its not the DSP diablo I've known.
     
  11. LAdiablo

    LAdiablo descarado

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    you started out calling all the wall builders bad guys which is incorrect
    and your slant was decidedly anti semetic imo
    if thats not who you are so be it
    seems to me maybe you are the one having a hard time owning that
    btw if walls don't work why do prisons use them so effectively to keep bad guys in?
    that argument doesn't hold water
    and insinuating the Israelis are the bad guys is insipid
    i don't like what you said and no it doesn't make me hate you even though i am surprised by your ignorance
    nothing you said is anything original btw
    just didn't expect it from you
     
  12. rube

    rube DSP Legend Staff Member Administrator

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    not talking about prisons man, we talking about big giant border walls
    look at how bad it works for Israel, its a nightmare for people on both sides.
    there are many liberal israelis and in fact the majority of the citizens are liberal and dont like the wall
    but there is always a power in the government that is ultra conservative and into getting land that is not part of the land allotted to them.
    the palestinian people and the israeli people are not the bad guys, that would be a ludicrous comment
    their governments, the people in power that represent them do them no favors.
    and that whole scene with that will will end horribly one day, for everyone involved.
    same if we built that kind of wall system here.
    thats why it wont happen.

    you say that my slant was anti semitic.
    you used the word insipid but saying something like my slant again says nothing of what your complaint is.
    thats why its weasely
     
  13. LAdiablo

    LAdiablo descarado

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    guess you missed the part where you said that
    spin it however you want like you always do
    and i don't think anyone really WANTS the wall but theres only so many ways to control movement
    so even if liberal Israelis don't want it that doesn't mean they don't want it
    its a resignation to the fact that people prefer to feel uncomfortable as opposed to oh idk DIE when a guy straps a bomb on in a public place
    oh btw when was the last time that happened in Israel...BEFORE the wall hey check that shit out
    and weaselly has two L's so please at least spell the name you are calling me correct
    so atypical of you to use name calling to make a point
     
  14. Sauce

    Sauce Member

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    In favor of border security but definitely not in favor of the wall.

    One, the land that the wall is to be built on is unstable. The border would traverse hundreds of miles of shifty rocky terrain and nearly the entire Pacific-North America tectonic plate boundary. Since it would be built straddling the fault lines in this region, the wall would be prone to deformation, and extreme destruction if earthquakes/floods were to occur. Had the wall been there in 2010, it would have been destroyed by the Baja, California earthquake.

    Two, if you are not building it along the Pacific-North American tectonic plate boundary, then you are using eminent domain to build the wall on someone’s property. Plus there is a 75 mile stretch of sovereign territory that the US or Mexico does not own.

    Three, the wall would cost upwards of 20 billion dollars. This does not even account for the cost of regular maintenance that must happen to keep the wall in a suitable condition. Or the cost to fix the wall if a natural disaster ruins a portion of it.

    Four, the wall won’t stop illegal immigration or the flow of drugs. Tunnels already exist. More tunnels would propagate along the border. Drones/Airplanes exist. Walls can be climbed quite easily with as little as a rope. One of the most common ways people illegally immigrate and smuggle drugs is through US ports of entry. A wall will do nothing to stop any of that.

    The wall is more symbolic than anything else. In terms of cost and effectiveness it is a poor idea.
     
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  15. Bluezoo

    Bluezoo DSP Legend

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    If I knew how, I would quote Jack Nicholson from " Mars Attacks "..."can't we all just get along ?"
    Then have the clip of the Martian disintergrating him...
     
  16. LAdiablo

    LAdiablo descarado

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    tho slatted wall is going to go like 20' down so i doubt the tunnels would survive any more than they do in Israel
    water would flow right through them
    20 billion compared to the cost of illegal immigration on our system?
    i've provided many examples of how they actually do work and have worked through history
    do they need repair on occasion or can someone breech them? of course but thats not a reason not to have one
    i live on a property w a wall and its there so i can control to some extent who comes in
    if you jump my wall the dogs will bark and i'll appear w a flashlight and a .40 to protect my family
    would i have been better off to never have erected that wall so that anyone and everyone could just walk in?
    no fucking way
    you lock the doors at night and secure the gate thats just prudent
    why would we do any different for the country?
    the walls don't work argument is baseless
     
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  17. CapnTreee

    CapnTreee Guest

    Border "security" doesn't exist without a border... marked by a wall, a fence or 'some' type of demarkation
    "Would be".. "If".. OK then we'll agree that "IF" there is a cataclysmic 'reckoning' then the buhlievers will not be here to worry but OTOH "prone to deformation" doesn't mean it failed and certainly doesn't mean it is a poor idea in the first place 'just in case'.
    No one is stating anything at all about the "tectonic plate boundary" but you. Retain focus. I stated openly and clearly that ANY country has both a right and an obligation to secure their borders lest they no longer remain their borders. Travel. Find a country other than the USA that does NOT claim/mark/protect it's borders. Post again with said evidence. In my travel of 30+ countries I've seen nothing to support your claims and have seen China take miles at a time from India simply because of this flawed logic. That 'fact' stands the harsh light of day.
    Regarding "eminent domain" Yep, what do you think that phrase is for? For that matter the "sovereign territory" is only sovereign BECAUSE "we" the USA granted that sovereignty and a wall/fence protects all parties so who is protesting? You on behalf of someone not you? Next!
    Yep you appear stuck on sticker shock. Get over it. Highways cost $$. Electrical systems cost $$. Clean water costs $$. Are you afraid of arbitrary $$ values or just grasping at anything that appears like a straw? Or were you intending to jump aboard the Liberatarian cart without wheels?
    Dude I cannot offer a reply to abject fears based upon nonsense. You might provide a source if you wish to make such imprudent claims. The smuggling of humans and drugs EXPICITLY avoid all manned ports of entry. Tunnels 'can' exist but are far from secure and prone to failures. And today's tech can see nearly 100 feet below ground which is what aids the Israelis in their efforts to defeat them.

    So are you now joining @rube and removing the doors from your house/apt? I thought not.
     
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  18. CapnTreee

    CapnTreee Guest

    All data supporting this position is being ignored by @rube and @Sauce while they parrot their fiscal fears.
    May I offer that the amount of $$$ repatriated by corporations after Trumps pardon is greater than $465 Billion with another $2.5 Trillion remaining illegally tucked away off shore. Focus.. this is not how much Fortune 500 profits were but how much was moved OUT of the country to avoid taxes. Now why are we whining about $20B? And this speaks not at all about the losses to the gray market illegal immigration economy which are so huge as to be nearly impossible to estimate.
    I'm failing to grasp the shallow arguments presented by others.
    You KNOW I don't shy away from disagreeing with you just because you're my friend
    And yet regarding this topic I cannot be further aligned with your clear and salient logic

    We'll just have to disagree elsewhere I guess..
     
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  19. Sauce

    Sauce Member

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    Apparently DSP is full of geophysicists and immigration experts because they have visited 30 countries. Lmao.

    So you’re in favor of a 21st century Trail of Tears? Interesting.

    You also realize that a large portion of illegal immigration in the US stems from individuals overstaying their visa right? Meaning they enter via US ports of entry? And drugs do flow through those same ports of entry. You are clearly misinformed.

    Fiscal fears? I’m just not in favor of dumping money into something that is A) ineffective and B) has zero return on investment. The wall is a wasted futile effort.
     
  20. CapnTreee

    CapnTreee Guest

    Really @rube this comes from the likes of you? A man who rarely uses anything but teasing innuendos, shadowy illusions, tribal buhliefs and empirically dubious references? The guy who's a history buff using his knowledge and then applying incongruent data from bygone days to modern events? Do not get me wrong, I've learned a lot from you but in doing so I've also learned that you'll reach into any available metaphor to 'win' an argument whether its germane or not. Hardly the person to claim teasing isn't sportsmanlike. Big chuckle for the audacity though.
    $0.02 for the humor
    Article 6 of the US Constitution is but one reference. Supreme Court decisions made into law have several other citations. Note that for 150 years there was no reference to Gawd on our currency either.. until the Bible thumpers of the 1950's fouled this ideal. Same with the Pledge of Alliciance... also no mention of Gawd until the Bible tumper era. Which many intent to continue.

    Churches are the province of buhliefs. The State is the province of science and logic. (well before tRump) Never the tween shall they meet.
     

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