DODGERS The GRANDAL Thread

Discussion in 'Los Angeles DODGERS' started by irish, Dec 30, 2018.

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How much guaranteed $$$ will Grandal receive on his next deal?

  1. $10-19 million

    4 vote(s)
    44.4%
  2. $20-29 million

    3 vote(s)
    33.3%
  3. $30-39 million

    1 vote(s)
    11.1%
  4. $40-49 million

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. $50-59 million

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. $60 million or more

    1 vote(s)
    11.1%
  1. irish

    irish DSP Staff Member Administrator

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    bored
    from mlbtraderumors...


    POLL: Yasmani Grandal’s next contract
    by Connor Byrne | MLB Trade Rumors — 29 December 2018

    [​IMG]

    Yasmani Grandal entered free agency as the clear-cut best catcher on the open market, but he remains without a job nearly two months after the offseason began. Part of that seems to be Grandal’s own doing, as the longtime Dodger reportedly turned down a generous proposal from the Mets – a four-year, $60MM offer. In the wake of Grandal’s rejection, the Mets pivoted to the No. 2 catcher in free agency, Wilson Ramos, whom they reeled in on a two-year, $19MM guarantee.

    At the outset of the offseason, MLBTR predicted Grandal would score a four-year, $64MM contract and listed the Mets, Nationals, Rangers, Twins, Red Sox, Astros, Angels, Phillies, Braves and Rockies as potential suitors. The Twins, Red Sox, Astros, Philllies and Rockies could still be in the mix for the 30-year-old Grandal, though at least some of those teams may prefer to swing a deal for Marlins trade chip J.T. Realmuto.

    It’s doubtful the other clubs are in on Grandal, on the other hand. The Nationals have already added Yan Gomes and Kurt Suzuki this winter, thus taking them out of the running for free-agent catchers who will garner major league contracts and Realmuto. The Rangers could still use a catcher, having parted with Robinson Chirinos at the start of the offseason and signed the offensively challenged Jeff Mathis, but it would be surprising to see the rebuilding franchise spend big on a 30-something player. The Angels showed interest in Grandal earlier this month, but they may be out of the equation after signing free agent Jonathan Lucroy on Friday. The Braves, meanwhile, re-signed Tyler Flowers toward the end of last season and then reunited with Brian McCann on a $2MM guarantee in free agency, giving them a pair of respected veterans.

    While at least a few of the above teams may be eyeing Grandal, the only ones that have actually shown reported interest in him this winter have been the Dodgers, Reds, White Sox and the aforementioned Mets, Astros and Angels. It doesn’t appear Grandal’s going to return to the Dodgers in 2019, though, considering multiple reports have indicated they aren’t keen on bringing him back on anything other than a short-term deal. The White Sox have signed James McCann since they were first publicly connected to Grandal, and they also have capable veteran backstop Welington Castillo on hand. Cincinnati, which selected Grandal 12th overall in the 2010 draft, may still be a candidate to sign him, but it has a passable, low-cost starter in Tucker Barnhart and seems more focused on upgrading its rotation than its situation behind the plate.

    The Dodgers already tried to bring Grandal back in 2019 on a $17.9MM qualifying offer, but he declined it, meaning it would cost a team significant major league payroll space, a draft pick and international bonus pool allotments to sign him. Grandal’s status as a QO recipient takes away from his appeal to some degree, yet he has nonetheless been among the majors’ most accomplished catchers over the past several years.

    Since 2014, which he spent with the Padres, the switch-hitting Grandal ranks top five at his position in home runs (104; third), wRC+ (115; third) and fWAR (12.2; fifth). And while Grandal had some well-documented problems as a defender in the 2018 postseason, he’s still a highly regarded pitch framer who has thrown out a roughly league-average percentage of base stealers in his career. Clearly, then, Grandal shouldn’t have trouble finding a lucrative contract prior to next season. But it’s an open question whether he erred in saying no to the Mets’ $60MM offer.
     
  2. irish

    irish DSP Staff Member Administrator

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    [​IMG]
     
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  3. darth550

    darth550 Baba Yaga

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    Looks like another case of the Nomar effect.... turns down 4/60 and never makes it back?
     
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  4. BlueMouse

    BlueMouse Voted DSP's favorite moderator Staff Member Administrator

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    I’m thinking 2 years / $26-28 million.
     
  5. irish

    irish DSP Staff Member Administrator

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    i'm thinking less
    may not be as bad as moustakas [last year]
    but i don't see cleveland or milwaukee paying that much for him
    and probably the only way he comes back here is on a one year, guessing in the $10-12mm neighborhood
    maybe the mets comes back with.. oh yeah, nvm lolz
     
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  6. LAdiablo

    LAdiablo descarado

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    he'll be a cancer if he has to take one year at 12
    i just can't see anyone approaching much more than 2/20 ish for a 30yr old thats demonstrated he can't get it done when it counts
    the framing part is nice and sure he can get hot here and there but fuck don't you have to catch a ball if your title is catcher?
     
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  7. VRP

    VRP DSP Legend

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    I hope he makes minimum wage
     
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  8. BlueMouse

    BlueMouse Voted DSP's favorite moderator Staff Member Administrator

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    Like MLB minimum wage? Or U.S. minimum wage?
     
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  9. BlueMouse

    BlueMouse Voted DSP's favorite moderator Staff Member Administrator

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    The problem I have with the framing is that he also leads the majors year after year in passed balls. So he is taking it too far and it is costing us. The hitting slumps I can live with, but the passed balls kill me.
     
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  10. THINKBLUE

    THINKBLUE DSP Gigolo

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    Bernie Sanders is eagerly awaiting clarification
     
  11. 1988Blues

    1988Blues DSP Regular

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    I won’t bother me one bit to see the mental
    Midget go
     
  12. Bluezoo

    Bluezoo DSP Legend

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    Haven't you heard?
    Roberts resigned.
     
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  13. 1988Blues

    1988Blues DSP Regular

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    I am talking about grand mall
     
  14. 1988Blues

    1988Blues DSP Regular

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    What is even he’s a mental midget I don’t know what Andrew Friedman sees in him
     
  15. Bluezoo

    Bluezoo DSP Legend

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    I know...accidental text on purpose....
     
  16. Bluezoo

    Bluezoo DSP Legend

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    Once you go black...you never go back.


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  17. irish

    irish DSP Staff Member Administrator

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    A Dodgers-Grandal reunion makes sense if other options aren’t possible
    by Allan Yamashige | Dodger Digest — 4 January 2019

    [​IMG]

    Just two days ago, Dustin wrote about what the Dodgers could do if they didn’t end up acquiring Bryce Harper or Corey Kluber. He mentioned one of those options as a potential reunion with Grandal, which could potentially work out very well for both sides.

    Then there’s Yasmani Grandal. Recency bias will have folks not liking him as an option at all, but he’s one of the best all-around catchers in the game and is, somewhat remarkably, still a free agent. There was a report that he turned down a 4-year, $60 million deal from the Mets. I’m extremely skeptical this is true. If it is, then he really doesn’t want to play for the Mets, because there’s no other reason his agent would advise him to turn down that deal. So, if Grandal comes back on, say, a 1-year deal at a rate both he and the Dodgers could agree on, he’d go back into the free agent market without the qualifying offer attached to him, making him a more attractive option. I also don’t think teams are fretting over losing their second-highest (2nd-rounder for most teams) and $500,000 of international signing money to sign a Top 5 catcher. I really think most are being swayed by Grandal’s poor postseason performance. If that’s the case, the Dodgers could benefit by getting him back for another season.

    A reunion between Grandal and the Dodgers is seemingly unlikely because the situations and timing have to both match up correctly. Grandal could easily sign a multi-year deal tomorrow securing his salary for the next few years. If the Dodgers are really in on Harper (they should be), they’ll have to wait that out before figuring out exactly how to address their other needs. Boras and Harper are extremely unlikely to sign until after Manny Machado has signed to ensure Harper gets a more impressive contract. Additionally, Cleveland could decide to hold off on trading Kluber until the dust settles in the free agency market. Either situation makes it less and less likely that Grandal and the Dodgers will end up in agreement.

    But if Grandal were to return, the Dodgers would enjoy at least one more season with one of the top three catchers in the league.
    [​IMG]
    Postseason aside, Grandal was one of the top offensive catchers in 2018. His 125 wRC+ trailed only Wilson Ramos (131) and J.T. Realmuto (126), while his .225 isolated slugging led all catchers. Additionally, his 24 homers trailed only Salvador Perez (27). In addition to being a top tier offensive catcher, Grandal excelled behind the plate as usual. He was the most valuable pitch-framing catcher in 2018, worth nearly 16 runs over the course of the season. Dating back through 2015, Grandal has been the best pitch-framing catcher twice, with his worst year being 2017 where he was just the fourth most valuable framer.

    ——

    WAR is difficult to use when evaluating catchers, as blocking, framing, and controlling baserunners has to be accurately accounted for. This is all without the aspect of game-calling which is it’s own thing entirely. Baseball Prospectus (bWARP) seems to most accurately portray all aspects of what a catcher does, especially in regards to framing. Factoring that in, there’s an argument that Grandal is just as valuable a catcher as Realmuto is. Over the last four seasons, Grandal has undoubtedly been one of the best catchers in the game but based on bWARP he’s been elite, and miles ahead of anyone not named Buster Posey.
    [​IMG]
    Grandal is obviously a top-tier catcher, although the elephant in the room is obviously his recent performance in the postseason. In 2017, Grandal was hitless in his eleven postseason plate appearances and Austin Barnes was the starting catcher for the entirety of the playoffs. Just a few months ago, Grandal slashed .138/.265/.276 over 34 appearances, totaling just four hits for a 56 wRC+.

    Small postseason sample sizes aren’t a valid reason to not sign good players. Say the Dodgers were to acquire Realmuto, one could say that they finally have a catcher who will be able to perform in the playoffs, but he could just as easily struggle as bad as Grandal has. Anyone can perform poorly over 30 plate appearances, or 20 innings. It’s an extremely small sample size, and it’s easy to say someone can’t perform in October, until they do — see David Price for example. Poor performance in the playoffs shouldn’t dissuade your favorite team from signing a very good baseball player.

    ——

    Everyone has their own opinions in regards to Grandal, but there is a legitimate argument that he’s the best all-around catcher in the league. Granted, Realmuto is two years younger, under team control for two more years, set to make less than Grandal would, and is significantly more athletic. This is why the Marlins are expecting a ton in a potential trade. However, the difference between the two isn’t near what it’s portrayed to be. It’s all entirely dependent on what the team values most.

    Realmuto would cost a lot in a trade, but the Dodgers have the depth and the farm system to get that done. If they don’t want to sacrifice depth or prospects, signing Grandal outright makes sense, as it’s just money and the team can afford it. In the end, Grandal is solidified as a top-three catcher in all of baseball, so if the situation arises where the Dodgers don’t land any of their reported top targets, pursuing Grandal makes a ton of sense.
     
  18. rube

    rube DSP Legend Staff Member Administrator

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    If you have to sign Grandal then be it for just 1 year contract and trade him at the deadline for a relief pitcher to someone who loses their catcher then give the job to Smith or Barnes or whomever is doing well.
     

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