done bit since it goes in the order they were posted tb no longer gets credit for being the author dsp is racist like that
he really is if he continues at this pace sending him back down could be an option i realizes he's great on defense, but he's been struggling just to make contact since last june
of course its not something you want to think about but its going to be really tough for Joc to adjust his swing at the major league level a guy rides his talent all the way to the show and then is figured out by everyone that has to be daunting my thinking is he's going to become one of those journeyman outfielders with the "project" chain around his neck for the next few years really hope I'm wrong but he's clearly lost
Did Joc give up too soon on what made him successful? I mean, he had an abysmal second half, but he was incredible during the first half doing it the way he was. Why when the league adjusted to him did he need to completely change his mechanics? Was it impossible for him to sustain success with his old mechanics? All of the batting stance changes between then and now is almost comical. It's sad. To the point where it seems unprofessional. One day he's crouching, one day there is a leg kick, then his hands change position, then this new thing on his heels. It's crazy to me. The way he looks now, imo, is his worst. How will he ever hit anything on the outer half of the plate like this? I know hitting coaches play only a small role with a team but I think Mcgwire and the coaching staff effed this kid up big time last year and now it's worse. Thoughts?
The kid had a long swing coming into his first year. It generated a lot of power, but I don't think it makes for a swing that can handle pitches with movement since you have to commit way early on the pitch. I think that is what caused the high K numbers in the 2nd half. Pitchers just realized you can fool the kid pretty early. Now the problem is he's trying everything to shorten the swing motion while still keeping his power and nothing is working thus far. I think he's just experimenting right now and it's still early in Spring training. Not saying he will figure it out, and you may have to platoon him and put him way down in the order, but there is a chance he will find a formula that will work. It's hard to change a swing you've had probably since early high school.
agreed his swing was too long with too many holes there's a reason he hit them so far the first half -- look at how hard he swings mlb pitchers can learn to exploit that rather easily
And there lies the conundrum. Because it's gonna be extremely tough for him to see the improvement at the big league level when the show really starts, he's gonna take hits mentally, but it's also probably gonna hurt his confidence if they send him down to AAA to work on it. A demotion would have to sting to some degree. Then we have the issue of his value decreasing while all this is going on, it's one thing if he's searching and struggling in the show, another thing entirely if he goes back down to the minors and fails to find it there as well. Plus, how long does our FO really want to go about this exercise when a good portion of Joc's trade value is tied to his service time. And then some other team out there may feel they can fix him this early on and may make a respetable offer, but if we're going into like year 3 or 4 with these same issues that offer is probably in the wind at that point. I agree, he is giving off hint of that journeyman odor, hope I'm wrong too. But considering all of the above, if these issues persist I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility of them just dealing him. Don't think it's a coincidence that they jumped at the chance to add Trayce and also some other CFs like Toles this off-season. Trayce is just a month older than Joc, so the youth movement is still intact if that were to happen. The one thing I always think about is how Friedman declined LAD's trade offer for Price when Joc was the key cog going to TB in the proposed deal a couple years ago. I don't know that Friedman is/was impressed by Joc in general or that he's heavily tied to him either. But obviously it's early and maybe the adjustments just haven't taken yet, just something to think about though. They could easily just go with some combination of Trayce/Ethier/Kike/SVS/CC in CF until they put Humpty Dumpty Joc back together again. Humpty could at least make contact in these games, I'm not even asking for a hit, just put the ball in play and stop looking like Bellinger's 6yr old brother.
Maybe I'm an optimist (you fucking know better) but I think the predictions of Joc's demise are a bit premature.
Four games into ST and Joc is toast? For realz??? Isn't this what ST is for, working out the kinks and finding what works?
He's not done. Our expectations were too high given he was "the answer" to our centerfield woes with the Puig/Kemp/fill in the blank problems. It's still too early in Spring. The question is when do you assess what to do?
True but thats a mighty big kink in the swing that he has known his entire career in baseball No one is hoping for him to be toast but if you watch the games he's struggling pretty hard lapsing back and not looking comfortable at all Making that change at this level, sure seems to a layman that played a little, to be a monster endeavor Not to mention the mental and emotional abuse its going to take on a one time golden boy if it continues heading south Never recall seeing a mlb player found out so completely so soon
Stick to what you know. His first half numbers for a rookie were amazing. Every player slumps, the reaction to Jocs post all star slump was to sit him, and to try to change him. People like Grandal sucked dick too, but they let him play through his injury inspired one, and he too was terrible. From memory Joc didn't get extended that luxury or free pass, when as a rookie perhaps he should have. This summer I took up golf again after a six year hiatus. I still had the slight muscle memory of my old swing, which was hit as hard as I fucking can. Three-off-the-tee was my motto for about three months. I had everyone I played with telling me to slow it down, and just get it up there. I knew from experience from the past that slowing my swing down pulled all my mechanics out-of-whack. I kept doing it my way, straightening it our game-by-game. Now I'm 90% of the way there, driving the occasional par 4 and losing a ball every other round. Power in baseball is a huge weapon, a game changer. It seems counter-productive to me to try to lessen it. Joc should be embracing it, it's what he does. He was a rookie ffs, it was as much mental as it was physical.
It's still early for Joc, but not THAT early. He had a full season last year and faded badly. He's had the off season to work on the swing, and so far, the results still look bad. So the question for me is by what criteria do we judge someone like Joc, and when do we say there is or isn't a problem?
IDK how this all turns out for Joc, but I do know it's a bummer big time right now. If there's anybody I want to see succeed, it's Joc. Not only as a Dodger fan, but just to see a respectful kid make it in the bigs. And with us. Tough to watch him struggle.
Insightful post. Although watching him nosedive was excruciating last season, and even though I thought that he needed to be tweaked by a savvy hitting coach, I do agree with what you wrote here. Makes sense now, and I do think he would eventually work out the physical aspects of it...but he surely doesn't need the mental anguish of a whole new approach that seems to be not happening for him.
it is still early but he's had all winter to work on his swing i'm not counting him out yet but it's definitely not the start we all hoped for if he were making tough outs, hitting the ball hard, it would be one thing but i think he's already k'd 4 or so times
Last guy I remember breaking out and then it was just totally gone in a blink was the kid from the Phillies Domonic Brown. He's elsewhere now, with Toronto I believe. And although it was early in his career, Brown had more ABs in the show before he'd broken out, so it's not quite on par with what's happened to Joc. It's like I always say..consider the response. Meaning that if there was no problem then it's unlikely that they would've tweaked his approach in such a dramatic way. However, they saw what we and everybody else in the league saw and decided to try to help, tried to shorten that thing and make it more compact. So now we sit back and see if his new approach(es) are a fix, I say " approaches " because I saw several today. Lol Some guys, when you think you have a fix it just opens up a new can of worms...like with Puig and how they've sorta trained him to stay back, to stop jumping way out over the plate to hit pitches that are away, which was his bread and butter early on. Now Puig sees these pitches off the plate, still can't lay off, so he just waves at them with big looping swings that make him look like he's battling a blue marlin off the coast of Miami. So yeah, again, it's early but if the problems persist and stack up then they could act quickly here because of the ML depth that they have. They don't really need Joc to be a successful team, would be nice if they had him tho. Some scouts think Micah Johnson is gonna end up in the OF because of his great speed, which Joc doesn't really have, so at some point all of these options are gonna come into play if the shit show continues. If his way wasn't hurting a WS contender, and he was just on some shitty ballclub, maybe they would've left him alone? Maybe it's just the fair move when considering everyone else on this talented club that has to watch him flail? Or maybe not...again, Friedman didn't like Joc enough to bring him to TB in that proposed trade, so maybe Friedman already had his finger on the red button here.
