Discussion in 'Los Angeles DODGERS' started by bestlakersfan, Dec 10, 2011.
He failed the test in the playoffs, no?
i like to think of ellis tripping balls and just dialing in. passan has a pov
Braun guilty of hurting game but should remain MVP
By Jeff Passan, Yahoo! Sports Dec 11, 1:55 am EST
Don’t even try to make the argument that Ryan Braun deserves to have his National League MVP award stripped because he allegedly tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs during the postseason.
Who do you want to give it to? Matt Kemp?
And you know Matt Kemp didn’t use PEDs how?
Because he didn’t test positive in any of Major League Baseball’s mandated drug tests? You mean the same drug tests that Ryan Braun passed during the regular season?
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Ryan Braun won the MVP award after leading the Brewers to the NL Central title in 2011.
Now, I don’t believe Kemp used any PEDs. I don’t know that for certain, however, and it’s what makes retroactive justice nothing more than a lame, knee-jerk, CYA effort. Baseball need not slum alongside the NCAA or the Heisman Trophy Trust in vacating wins or awards, acting like reality was some myth.
Certainly the idea of vengeance-by-punishment is alluring. When the ESPN report broke the news that Braun, the Milwaukee Brewers megastar, was appealing a positive test for elevated levels of testosterone, the urge for repercussions beyond the expected 50-game suspension permeated. Even those who believe PED use isn’t a crime understand the implications drugs have on the game. They are bad for it because of the negative attention that is more than a media creation. People across baseball expressed genuine disappointment that someone with the otherworldly talent of Braun would consider PEDs necessary to his success.
Braun took the standard defense, releasing a statement through his agent before telling USA Today: “It’s BS.” And as much as I want to believe him – that Braun, who came up through the minor leagues when steroid testing was mandatory, who eschewed the possibility of free agency to sign with Milwaukee through 2020, who, according to ESPN’s story, volunteered to give a second test that came back negative – I know better by now.
Almost all of them say they’re innocent.
Not one positive test has been overturned.
Braun’s urine allegedly included synthetic testosterone, which, in concert with elevated levels, is a damning indictment. That he tested positive during the playoffs is even worse. Whether Braun was looking for a boost or simply figured the reward was well worth the risk is muddled and unlikely to be clear anytime soon as long as he sticks to the I-didn’t-do-it nonsense we’ve heard a million times and not once believed.
It’s easy to understand why Braun would use PEDs. MLB took 3,868 tests between the beginning of the 2010 offseason and the end of the 2011 World Series. Everyone on a 40-man roster took one within the first five days of spring training, which knocked off about 1,200. Each took another unannounced test during the season. And MLB threw in 1,200 more random tests for the rest of the year, playoffs included.
The likelihood of a player’s drug use aligning with a random test is tiny. Certainly PEDs aren’t as prevalent in baseball as they once were, but the idea that so few positive tests indicate their riddance is naive. The last two players busted were a just-crowned MVP and one of the best hitters ever, Manny Ramirez. And you want to tell me other superstars, let alone utilitymen looking to keep their major league jobs, aren’t doping? They’re just not getting caught.
As much as baseball wants credit for prosecuting some of its biggest names instead of ignoring their positive tests – credit, I will say, the league deserves – let’s be honest.
[ Report: Ryan Braun has positive drug test, appealing ]
Without the proper motivation in place to dissuade PED use – and 50 games, it’s fair to say now, wasn’t proper enough to dissuade one of the game’s best – players will take the risk.
Were a positive test, for example, grounds to allow a team to void a player’s contract, the only testosterone in Braun’s body would’ve been his own. Braun will lose $1.94 million if his suspension is upheld. In the other 8 2/3 seasons remaining on his contract, the Brewers owe him $140.7 million. If PEDs had anything to do with Braun receiving his deal, consider this a $2 million investment with a return 70 times the size.
Granted, Braun, just 28, will play the rest of his career branded a steroid user. Barring a significant change in Hall of Fame voting, he’ll never parlay his brilliant first five years into anything more. A sullied name could hinder his entrepreneurial aspirations, which already include restaurants and a clothing line.
He can clutch his MVP knowing it’s going nowhere. For one, the Baseball Writers Association of America, not MLB, hands out the award. And there is no chance – zero, zilch, none – that the BBWAA will request its return. Even though the BBWAA’s membership-wide opinion on steroids comes through awfully clear every Hall of Fame induction season, it’s neither the organization’s job to judge nor to remedy what it might consider a mistake because of new information.
Baseball has had to deal with other stars being accused of using performance-enhancing drugs.
Barry Bonds still owns his four steroid-aided and -addled MVPs. Can’t forget Alex Rodriguez’s troika. Jason Giambi, Miguel Tejada, Sammy Sosa, Ken Caminiti and Jose Canseco all allegedly were on PEDs when they won MVP. No matter how fresh Braun’s award is in the minds of voters, it is every bit as much of history as the other dozen.
Baseball cannot undo things to pretty up history. Braun’s victory is an ugly point for the game, one that should be emphasized forever. He is the first high-profile player of his generation, after all, to test positive – the first from what Bud Selig would deem the post-Steroid Era. The commissioner had commended Braun by name in the past as part of the new, clean youth in the sport. He made the same mistake all of us do: Trusting baseball players to give a damn about the game’s best interests.
Instead, we’re back to where we always are: Debating about how baseball can conquer this when the truth is it can’t. PEDs are going to be around forever. The players’ union’s agreement to allow blood testing for HGH shows it’s malleable and concerned for the game’s well-being enough to entertain stricter penalties. While voiding contracts seems harsh and rife for abuse from owners, baseball is entering its 10th season of steroid testing without one false positive.
If Ryan Braun becomes the first – if he clears his name – the mea culpas will fly fast and furious and he’ll emerge with his reputation intact, maybe even strengthened. Chances are we won’t see him for the first 50 games of the 2012 season because of what he did in the 2011 playoffs. He can’t undo that mistake. Not now. Not ever.
Neither can the BBWAA. The NL MVP allegedly used PEDs, and we know this only because he got caught. Matt Kemp and Prince Fielder and Justin Upton and Albert Pujols and everyone else who finished behind him might’ve, too. Unless we know for certain they didn’t – and nobody ever will – the MVP needs to stay in Ryan Braun’s hands.
No matter how much blood is on them.
This. People act like steroids all of a sudden makes you Super-Human. Not in the slightest. There's no way around putting in the work to get better. No way.
I also have a major problem with the hypocrisy of it all. Cortisone--which is absolutely 100% bad for you--is approved by MLB. BUT because it enables the player to stay on the field and play, it's approved. This way the owners get to maximize on their financial investment. Nevermind that the long terms effects of cortisone can ruin a player for life. F*n hypocrites...
BTW, fuck Ryan Braun. Bottom line: He took something. I don't care what it was. The rules are in place for a reason and he broke them. Period. Suffer the f*n consequences and move on...
its gonna take a guy like Braun to make the hypocrisy of steroids a thing of the past
if he gets a pass then it will open up the can of worms
and that is a good thing
bad for the MLB and Bud Selig, but who cares?
its not worse than anything the MLB has done to itself in the past, so whats the big deal?
the sport will be fine no matter what
but at least we wont have this bullshit to deal with
its the same thing with the occupy wall street people
folks worldwide are getting tired of being lied to
they are tired of the hypocrisy we all just accept as truth
i just wish braun would have just owned up to it and said yeah i take PED's... so what?
if ryan braun would have written the Jose Canseco book i think that this issue would have already been resolved in our society
I agree. Regulation is ALWAYS better than denial of use.
Latest on Braun from MLBTR:
Ryan Braun Tested Positive For Prohibited Substance
By Mike Axisa [December 11 at 5:21pm CST]
5:21pm: According to a source familiar with the case, Braun's original test for performance-enhancing drugs was "insanely high, the highest ever for anyone who has ever taken a test, twice the level of the highest test ever taken," writes Teri Thompson of the New York Daily News.
that can actually be an anomaly then
an accidental overdose of something
maybe some gland is messed up and producing too much of a certain hormone
Well the tests said *synthetic* so it's definitely an external substance. The circumstances around this are interesting...
An accidental overdose of something...yeah-that's the ticket! Accidental overdose!
What could it be...procyonidae hormones maybe? He looks like a raccoon...yeah that must be it. Poor guy...
My guess is Prince Fielder tampered with the sample. He was hoping this would come out before the MVP voting, ensuring the award for himself. NL MVP Prince Fielder hits the free agent market? That has a nice ring to it.
hmmm, how 'close' of mates are fielder and braun?
I'm sure they've crossed streams before.
A Quality post there brotha...beautiful.
no love for the perfect setup?
Lilly stepping the fuck up and backing up his teammate. Balls.
Lilly questions NL MVP choice, voting process
By Ken Gurnick / MLB.com | 12/12/11 1:26 AM EST
LOS ANGELES -- Even before headlines of Ryan Braun's alleged positive drug test, Dodgers veteran pitcher Ted Lilly charged the Baseball Writers' Association of America with a big, fat error when it didn't name his teammate, Matt Kemp, the National League MVP of 2011.
"They gave it to the wrong guy," Lilly said when the award was announced last month.
"I told you, they gave it to the wrong guy," he said again Sunday. "I would feel that way if Matt Kemp played for Milwaukee and Ryan Braun played for Los Angeles. Kemp was the Most Valuable Player."
Lilly isn't convinced the award shouldn't be revoked and transferred to runner-up Kemp, even though Ken Caminiti and Alex Rodriguez didn't lose their awards when steroid use was revealed.
"There's a first time for everything," said Lilly. "If we're really cleaning up the game, maybe that would be a move in the right direction."
But Lilly has just as big of a problem with the composition of the award's voting pool, which has changed dramatically while reflecting the change in the media that covers the sport.
"I don't think players are fully aware of who votes for these awards," said Lilly. "I always thought it was the beat writers, and I guess back in the day, it was. But now I understand that some of the beat writers aren't allowed to vote, so you get a lot of substitute voters that might not actually be covering their teams and you don't really know how they define an MVP. "
Lilly is correct. For example, the BBWAA has disqualified from membership MLB.com writers for a conflict of interest because they work for Major League Baseball. In addition, newspapers such as the Los Angeles Times won't allow their reporters to vote on season-ending awards because of a conflict of interest that exists when such awards can result in financial incentive bonuses for the winning players.
The Dodgers have three traveling beat writers, but only one is allowed to vote for postseason awards. Neither Los Angeles chapter writers that voted for the NL MVP -- Yahoo.com national writer Tim Brown and Los Angeles Times blogger Steve Dilbeck -- is a traveling beat writer, although both have been in the past.
According to the BBWAA website:
"Two writers from each MLB city are recommended by the local chapter chairman and approved by the national secretary-treasurer to vote for each award. Writers from NL cities vote for NL awards, and writers from AL cities vote for AL awards, making 32 voters for each NL award and 28 for each AL award. Most traveling beat writers will vote for at least one annual award each year. In some chapters, columnists or backup writers may also vote. Any active member of the BBWAA is eligible to vote for annual awards, regardless of his or her number of years in the organization.
"Most national baseball writers who are active BBWAA members will vote for annual awards. Typically, the writer votes in the chapter where he resides, but sometimes national writers vote as part of smaller chapters that don't have enough qualified voters.
"Beat writers may be asked to vote for two or even three awards, especially in chapters with fewer voters. Writers in two-team markets may even vote for awards in both leagues. Most writers vote for just one award each year."
Lilly thinks voters missed the significance and degree of difficulty of Kemp's season compared to Braun's.
"Matt didn't have Prince Fielder in the lineup," he said. "That's a huge difference. Matt didn't play in a hitter's park, which Miller Park is and Dodger Stadium isn't. Matt plays center field, so there are more defensive demands.
"I'm not saying that Braun didn't have a great season, but if he got the award just because his team went to the postseason, that's no reason to penalize Matt, who had a better season and was more important to the Dodgers. Think of where we'd have been without him."
Ken Gurnick is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.
Serious props to Lilly who, obviously, isn't afraid of speaking his mind or hurting others feeling.
we all know matt kemp was the MVP
but i would take it from braun because of the roids
whats done is done and the retroactive bullshit we do with sports awards is retarded
like how they strip heisman awards from guys who take money and cars but not guys that murder people
Separate names with a comma.