DODGERS The FRONT OFFICE (NERDS) Thread

Discussion in 'Los Angeles DODGERS' started by IBleedBlue15, Oct 14, 2014.

  1. CapnTreee

    CapnTreee Guest


    Indeed that is some monster spin you lay down as well.

    My point, lost on you it seems, is that WHATEVER he gets paid, Greinke delivers the bacon (W's) better than ANYONE else you intend to substitute for him.

    It's all about the W's, and only about the W's. Not about the $$ anymore. We have $$. We have $$$$$$. Or maybe even $$$$$$$$$

    So start the best talent possible to get the most W's possible.

    Stop solving for $$. That's so 2011.
     
  2. back2back x 2 + 1

    back2back x 2 + 1 DSP Legend Damned

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    your point is lost on me because there's little truth to it.

    currently..as in 7 starts into the 2015 season..OK..Greinke's the king of April and May in 2015.

    however, Greinke didn't have more wins than Cueto last year, didn't have more wins than Zimmermann in 2013 and Price has topped Greinke's highest win total twice in his career. in fact, both Cueto and Price sport higher career win %'s than Greinke. and i just said all of that knowing full well that " wins " don't mean much at all when you're talking about pitching. so stop talking " wins " when it comes pitching..that's so 1991.
     
  3. BlueMouse

    BlueMouse 2020 World Champions

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    I think the age difference between Greinke and the other potential free agents is being overstated a bit. Why is there an assumption that Greinke will command the same size contract as the others if the age difference is so important? If Greinke is cheaper in years does that change things? If you are so worried with handing out $200 million for Greinke, why are you so quick to hand out $200 million contracts to guys 1-2 years younger with past injuries and lots of recent innings logged?

    I can't help but feel like some of this is preemptive sour grapes over just the idea of Greinke opting out, and not necessarily an unbiased look at the upcoming FA market. Everyone wanted Lester who was just a year younger than Greinke will be. If Greinke was opting out of another team's contract would he receive a better reception?
     
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  4. back2back x 2 + 1

    back2back x 2 + 1 DSP Legend Damned

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    also, this subject is hardly " all about money ". one of the very 1st things that Kasten pointed to after we got AGon/Crawford/Greinke was that all of these big contracts were gonna expire when guys were around 35 years old..just an example of Stan Kasten being about flexibility from the start. he doesn't want to be locked into big contracts with guys that are 36-37-38 years old. that's a reasonable approach.

    so if Greinke opts out and the discussion between his reps and our FO is one where Greinke only wants more money added and he doesn't want extra years tacked on ( his current deal expires when he's 35 years old)..there will be a better chance that he gets re-signed.

    however, the point still stands..if Greinke wants to guarantee that he's a Dodger going forward after this year - don't opt out of the contract. if he opts out and goes looking for a new deal/new team, our FO has the right to go looking for new arms and it is a statistical fact that there are gonna be younger arms out there that are of Greinke's caliber. they could grab one..they could grab two..neither could be named " Zack Greinke ".
     
  5. back2back x 2 + 1

    back2back x 2 + 1 DSP Legend Damned

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    there is no perfect set of circumstances..especially when you're talking about pitching. i mean we've all been on bended knee - hoping and praying that Greinke can work through the arm problems that he was reportedly having earlier this season. the best and brightest go down. however, if Greinke chooses a better deal than they're willing to offer..signing Cueto and/or Price to deals that are similar to the one that Greinke signed with us ( deals that would give us 3 good years and see them possibly opt out as well) would be a good idea.

    a large chunk of this is not wanting to lock big money into players that are 36-40 years old. i mean injuries aside..you're going to see a decline in performance as guy's age because father time is indeed undefeated. i mean nobody wants the Dodgers to look like the Phillies or Yankees in 5 years..where the team is all old and shit and the fans are talkin about " how good we used to be ".

    personally, i'm not one who looks at " innings pitched ", see a lot of innings, and gets scared right off. you look through their injury history and late season performances and see what's there, etc. it's definitely case by case. Cueto, for instance..he's been a horse throughout his career. he had a bunch of ticky tack things bothering him in 2013, but other than that he's been a horse..had his greatest year ever the following year and is lookin damn good right now. love to have him. Cueto had a rough outing against PIT in the playoffs..however, it was no different than Greinke's rough playoff outings ( plural) in Milwaukee. Cueto could re-write his playoff story just like Greinke's done here with us.

    as far as the direction that you took your post, that's your opinion. personally, i won't be mad at Greinke because it's in his contract that he has the freedom to opt out and the Dodgers have the money to replace him if he does, so for me it's just " on to the next one " just like it was when they dealt Kemp and Dee, let Hanley go, etc. they went out signed Olivera and on to the next one.

    i obviously can't speak for everyone, but i wanted Lester because 1) i felt like the FO should be proactive with Greinke's opt out looming, 2) Lester is a champion 2 or 3 times over and i felt he would help us win this year while Greinke was still around, 3) he seemed like a real target because they wouldn't have to give up draft compensation to sign him ( this was before they started adding extra draft picks). and 4) age considering..i was hoping Lester's deal with us would give him an opt out after the 3rd year and that he'd bounce out right before father time kicks his ass as well.
     
  6. blazer5

    blazer5 DSP Legend

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    Winz
     
  7. chris

    chris Guest

    TL;DR
     
  8. carolinabluedodger

    carolinabluedodger DSP Legend

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    Can't speak for anyone but me, and it's not so much the age now as the age at the end. His contract right now is reasonable for the age at the end, an extension will pay him into his decline. That is what you want to avoid, and where many teams find themselves strapped for cash, paying players handsomely for their decline.

    And for my buddy Cappy, you better read the writing on the wall. Yes, we have mega-dollars. But no, we are not going to keep spending mega-dollars. The front office has made it crystal clear that the future lies in the farm and international market, and not so much the free agent market. They plan to use younger and cheaper talent and keep payroll closer to the luxury minimum rather than exceeding it year after year. Not to say that they won't get a FA from time to time, but nothing like what we've seen so far.

    If I were a betting man (and I am) my money would be on the nerds letting Grienke walk.
     
  9. BlueMouse

    BlueMouse 2020 World Champions

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    From a team's perspective I can't agree with being FOR player opt-out clauses in the middle of a contract. That only benefits the player. Even everyone here would like Greinke to stay on his current deal. The only reason someone wouldn't opt-out is if they were no longer worth it.
     
  10. CapnTreee

    CapnTreee Guest

    I agree about Father Time don't be so forlorn... LOL like I don't know...

    And to you really think that nerds will let him walk if he' foolish enough to exercise that option? It would be nice to see him run off a 20 W season to press that point.

    Codge, I have been a Dodger fan since Koufax... so please, now that the nice GG bank thieves own us, could you please at least let us dream of spending for more talent. I 'll take Cueto or Lester or both... DSP's a sports blog... give a man a pipe dream for crying out loud. :grumpyoldman:

    I want 4 Cy Young SP's and will continue to rant for that until we win back to back x 2 +1!!

    With THAT deep of pockets we should aspire to nothing less than the Orioles 4 x 20 W from years ago.
     
  11. back2back x 2 + 1

    back2back x 2 + 1 DSP Legend Damned

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    the option motivates the player and the team could benefit from such, but aside from that, it's also just another form of flexibility. there is good that can come from it. however, i don't think many here give a damn about Greinke's money or his contract..they just want him to stay. you have Cappy here..he'd give Greinke the Stanton contract.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2015
  12. IBleedBlue15

    IBleedBlue15 DSP Stud

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    Kemp is currently at -0.5 WAR. He's costing the Padres just for putting him out on the field. Wrong side of 30 and he isn't getting any better. Love the guy but he should've been a DH like 2 years ago.
     
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  13. IBleedBlue15

    IBleedBlue15 DSP Stud

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    For me, I just don't think the FO is going to shell out a massive contract to a pitcher going into their mid to late 30s. I think it's either resign Greinke or trade for a younger pitcher.
     
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  14. carolinabluedodger

    carolinabluedodger DSP Legend

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    I go back to Koufax days too, and Podres for that matter. I'll throw in a Claude Osteen just for the helluva it. It's nice to dream but when the guys with the $$$ in their pocket say it ain't gonna happen, then I tend to believe it ain't gonna happen. Call me psychic.

    And yes, I absofuckinglutely believe they let him walk, even if he brings home the Cy Young. My best case scenario is that he wins the WS MVP, the Cy, and the NL MVP, and then decides he wants the chance to do it again with the Dodgers.
     
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  15. back2back x 2 + 1

    back2back x 2 + 1 DSP Legend Damned

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    http://www.hngn.com/articles/91329/...opts-out-team-may-not-look-to-re-sign-him.htm


    Last week rumors surfaced that suggested Zack Greinke is expected to opt out of his contract with the Los Angeles Dodgers after this season so he can seek a new lucrative deal before his age hinders him from doing so. If this happens to be the case, will the Dodgers look to re-sign him?

    While some have said it's hard to believe Los Angeles would let the right-hander walk, the club's ownership philosophy may suggest otherwise. While the Dodgers shifted around their front office and brought in Andrew Friedman from the Tampa Bay Rays and Farhan Zaidi from the Oakland Athletics, the team's ownership and top-end leadership are still intact.

    President Stan Kasten said back in 2013 that the club "feels comfortable" signing players up until their age 36 season, via Bill Shaikin of the Los Angeles Times. And considering the team brought in Friedman and Zaidi to make more cost-effective decisions and parted ways with the, at times, spendthrift GM Ned Colletti, signing Greinke to a costly long-term contract may not be in the cards if he decides to opt out.

    "Kasten noted that the Dodgers had not acquired or signed players with long-term contracts that extend beyond age 36," Shaikin wrote back in 2013.

    Greinke turns 32 in October and it's likely he's seeking a deal that will take him beyond 36 years of age, especially since Jon Lester (31) signed a six-year, $155 million contract with the Chicago Cubs and Max Scherzer (30) signed a seven-year, $210 million contract with the Washington Nationals this past offseason.

    However, the Dodgers may re-evaluate their philosophy. The starting rotation is currently in shambles beyond Greinke and Kershaw. Additionally, Greinke leads the National League with a 1.56 ERA through his first six starts (5-0 with a 0.843 WHIP and 34 strikeouts), which leaves the Dodgers in a tough spot because they can't afford to lose an elite starter.

    But the season is still young.

    If Greinke hits a rough patch or gets injured he may consider staying with the team for the remaining three years and $71 million. He also may not want to hit the free agent market and compete with younger elite starters such as David Price, Johnny Cueto, Jordan Zimmermann, Jeff Samardzija and Doug Fister, as well as other cheaper options (Ian Kennedy, Alfredo Simon, Mat Latos, Mike Leake and others).

    The former AL Cy Young winner has had mild elbow concerns in each of the past two seasons (he received a lubricating injection in his throwing elbow during spring training) and that may cause other executives, as well as the Dodgers, to become hesitant in giving him a new lucrative deal.

    As of right now, though, he's in a great position to earn more money.

    "The season has five months to play out. The Dodgers might yet discover a reliable starting pitcher within their organization," Shaikin wrote last week. "They might trade for a Cole Hamels, or a Johnny Cueto, or a Kyle Lohse. They might even get Ryu back this season.

    "For now, though, Greinke and his agent, Casey Close, are sitting prettier than either might have imagined one month ago. If you become more of a necessity and less of a luxury to the team with the highest payroll in sports history, you are in a mighty fine spot indeed."
     
  16. LA BUMS

    LA BUMS DSP Regular

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    that war stuff means nothing to me. how quickly we forget home depo.
    hee seop choi says whats up though....
    and just so its not forgotten the dodgers paid the padres handsomely for kemp to hit and drive in runs against us. you can add up all the funky computer stats you want. you dont pay the enemy to beat you.
     
  17. blazer5

    blazer5 DSP Legend

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    It will be moot soon enough when the bison becomes:kemp:
     
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  18. BlueMouse

    BlueMouse 2020 World Champions

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    The Padres are saving us $70 million on Kemp's contract, they gave us Grandal and 2 pitching prospects, and improved as they are we are 4-2 against them so far this year (just like any other year). I'm pretty sure what we did to the Padres is illegal in most countries.
     
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  19. back2back x 2 + 1

    back2back x 2 + 1 DSP Legend Damned

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    :spitcoffee:



    FIFY, but common sense?..you're not gettin through to Bums with common sense.
     
  20. back2back x 2 + 1

    back2back x 2 + 1 DSP Legend Damned

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    http://www.hngn.com/articles/92200/...ouston-astros-in-the-mix-for-scott-kazmir.htm

    "I think Billy [Beane] is in a great position here because some of the teams that could use a good starting pitcher are guys he has a trade history with," ESPN Insider Buster Olney said on the Baseball Tonight Podcast. "Ben Cherington, Red Sox general manager; Andrew Friedman, the Dodgers' president of baseball operations; the Yankees, theoretically, could be in the mix; the Houston Astros could be in that mix, [Beane] has made deals with Jeff Luhnow in the past."
     

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