Discussion in 'Los Angeles DODGERS' started by irish, Oct 19, 2017.
Unless they were stealing signs and wanted to distract.
MLB Analyst: Dave Roberts Had “A Very Bad Series”
November 2, 2017 10:15 AM
Filed Under: Clayton Kershaw, Dave Roberts, Houston Astros, Los Angeles Dodgers, World Series, Yu Darvish
(Photo by Ezra Shaw/Getty Images)
The Houston Astros won their first World Series in franchise history Wednesday, beating the Dodgers, 5-1, in Game 7 in Los Angeles. The Astros jumped on Yu Darvish early – just as they did in Game 3 – scoring five runs in the first two innings. The Astros arms took it from there, scattering six hits and allowing just one run.
For this, the Astros – who beat both the Yankees and Dodgers in seven-game thrillers – deserve credit.
“I just love all the young energy,” MLB Network Radio and MLB on TBS analyst Casey Stern said on CBS Sports Radio’s After Hours with Amy Lawrence. “It was a lot of fun and the cool part of this team is that we always have that question about chemistry and is it important. Clearly you have to have players that are good, but there’s absolutely no doubt that the chemistry this club has, the way they believe in each other, the tight-knit group, the energy that you could see through the TV when you’re watching on the field or at home, I think that was a big part of why they won. I think it’s a special group, and they’re not going anywhere for a while. They’re going to be around now.”
The Dodgers, meanwhile, deserve some criticism – Dave Roberts, specifically. Was winning 104 games – the most since 1953, when the franchise played in Brooklyn – a success? Yes. Was advancing to the World Series – for the first time since 1988 – a success? Yes.
But Roberts will likely be kicking himself for sticking with Darvish, who was chased in the second inning for the second time in this series.
“Look, I think Dave is fantastic. I know him well, I love him, I covered him in ’04 when I was covering the Red Sox. He is a good person, and he will learn from this,” Stern said. “But he had a very bad series. I don’t think he necessarily got out-managed because I don’t think it was necessarily toe-to-toe in that way, but I think he had some bad moments. . . . I think pulling Rich Hill in Game 2 early put him in a bad spot. (Kenta) Maeda got tired, (Brandon) Morrow got tired, and they were kind of chasing themselves in that bullpen ever since then.”
For the series, Darvish allowed eight runs on nine hits in 3 and 1/3 innings – good enough for a 21.60 ERA and a 3.30 WHIP.
“The first game you could tell he didn’t have his stuff,” Stern said. “Sometimes with pitchers, they just don’t have it. He had no feel of the fast ball, he couldn’t spot any of the curveballs, his slider, and he just left him in there to give up runs. Tonight was the worst move of them all. I was literally losing my mind because I’m rooting for a good game and I’m screaming. You cannot sit there after Darvish looked bad in the first inning. If you’ve got Clayton Kershaw available – who should have started this game anyway when you saw how good he was – you got to put him in there. You got the best pitcher on the planet. You got Alex Wood behind him. You don’t sit there and watch Darvish. This is Game 7. This isn’t May 9.”
After allowing two runs in the first inning, Darvish walked Brian McCann and gave up a double to Marwin Gonzalez to begin the second. At that point, Roberts, one would think, would go to his bullpen.
Nope. He left Darvish in the game. Three batters later, it was 5-0, with George Springer going yard for the fifth time this series.
“You allow yourself to get in a position where Darvish gives up a two-run home run,” Stern said. “That should have been a 2-0 game. That was on Dave Roberts, and I think it was the worst decision we probably saw honestly from a manager in the postseason. Everybody talks about Dusty (Baker) with (Stephen) Strasburg and Joe Maddon had a few blunders. When you get in a spot like this, (you have to have) urgency. You cannot get in a position where you’re watching Darvish give up five runs – and that was the difference in the game because guess what? The amount of runs allowed after Darvish left? Zero.
Obviously that was a slip up, the entire conversation was not about hitting coach not pitching coach.
Some pussies are pussies because they have never been punched in the mouth.
I have asked people straight up, has anyone ever punched you in the mouth?
They say no.
I say... that explains it.
Getting punched in the mouth is very important when you are growing up.
If you aren't lucky enough to get punched in the face a couple of times as a preteen or teenager then you missed out on valuable life lessons about yourself.
Yu is not in control.
The batter is in control and takes command.
Darvish was deer in the headlights for his WS starts. Even if you are tipping your pitches, a true ace can power through your pitches.
He had that “oh fuck” face going and Roberts should have pulled him at 2 runs. It’s freaking game 7 at home in the WS and you have a fresh Alex Wood, the rest of your starters and all your BP.
But stranding all those RISP, that was similarly unforgivable. I mean the bases were loaded in the first inning and nothing.
Don't think it cheapens their accomplishment, but why expose something you might be able to exploit in the future?
The players did not come up big in big moments.
But Dave set them up to fail with his decision making.
I really think the Dodgers are mulling firing him.
Everyone knew. The Dodgers knew, Darvish knew.
That is not the point, you guys are focusing on a non issue.
The point is that the Dodgers attempted to fix the problem and fixed some of his tells but the pressure of the big time caused Darvish to slip and show one of his tells.
i don't believe that to be the case
darvish was tipping pitches when he got here
and eduardo perez (espn) was able to detect giveaways just from watching
i just think beltran is a clueless douche
i boxed when i was younger
the best backhanded compliment i always got was i had a great chin -- which translates to you have shitty defensive skills and get hit a lot
was using the "punched in mouth" term metaphorically, which you obviously got
but getting punched in the nose is much more painful/damaging (eyes well up, clouding your vision)
but you're 100% right about the life experience(s)
agreed roberts should have pulled him
if not after the first, certainly after he gave up the double to mccann
gonna disagree that true aces can power through
anyone stands a significantly better chance if they know what's coming
major league hitters that can hit even more so
add that it's the best offense in baseball, and they're going to do some damage
and it's not just putting the ball in play...
as eduardo perez/espn pointed out, gurriel and mccann both had 10+ pitch at bats -- darvish couldn't put them away because they knew what was coming
another stat... darvish had 14 k's in his two postseason starts coming into the ws
in his two ws starts, zero
agree on stranding runners
that said, psychologically it's a lot easier to rally back from a 2-0 deficit than 5-0
roberts cost us game 7 as much as the hitters
Kershaw reflects on WS loss: “Maybe one of these days I won’t fail”
by Bryan McWilliam | The Score — 18 hours ago
Clayton Kershaw is arguably the greatest pitcher on the planet, but after losing Game 7 of the World Series to the Houston Astros on Wednesday, the Los Angeles Dodgers ace feels like a failure.
"Maybe one of these days I won’t fail, we won’t fail, and we’ll win one of these things," Kershaw explained to reporters, including Josh Peter of USA Today. "… There’s only one team that can succeed. There’s only one team that wins the last game, so that’s tough.
"I think once the dust settles and we go home, we can realize that we had a pretty amazing season and we finished in second place, which nobody cares about or remembers."
The Dodgers won more regular-season games than any other team while securing a fifth consecutive division title, but they couldn't walk out of the big dance hoisting The Commissioner's Trophy. The loss was an obvious disappointment to Kershaw who pitched four spotless innings of relief after starter Yu Darvish struggled.
"It's too hard to think about what the Astros are getting to do right now," Kershaw told J.P Hoornstra of the Orange County Register postgame. "It's too hard to think about all that."
With the season officially over, the 29-year-old Kershaw - signed through 2021 - plans to hang out with teammates and remember the remarkable season they had and hopes to make it happen once again soon.
"This month felt like 27 years," he explained. "You can ask my wife too. I think it took 10 years off her life. It’s just every game, every pitch, it’s just so intense ...
"It’s hard. You go through this much effort to win that many games against this many good teams and it’s, I mean, I hope to get to this point again."
that's why beltran is a self-serving douche
he's likely retiring, so what does he care about future ab's?
i say cheapens because some will view that they didn't win fairly
i disagree because sign stealing etc has always been part of baseball, and you take whatever advantages present themselves
and i put something else on darvish/barnes/roberts/honeycutt...
if you suspect sign stealing/pitch tipping there is a remedy -- knock somebody on their ass
guys will be a lot more reluctant to dig in if they fear a pitch -- tipped or not -- coming at their head
and who better for darvish to have drilled than gurriel?
agree, agree and agree!
how can you tell?
Moving forward though the team needs to take the next step. The organization needs to take the next step.
Houston did a direct tank job to reload with these studs. The Dodgers did a soft reboot and have had good results.
The Dodgers are at a tier below the Astros.
The Yankees are in a similar position. So they fired their manager and will probably spend money to bring in big FA.
The Dodgers need to do the same thing but beat them to those FA and to the best potential manager available.
The Angels may probably finally let go of Mike. Who knows what he would be like as a manager in Dodger Blue again.
Although I dont think the nerds would want a guy like Mike as manager because he has a history of not playing ball with the GM's in Anaheim.
despite my complaints, i like roberts
he managed well through the nlcs but panicked and micro/over-managed in the ws
nerds arent going to go after marquee players via trade/free agency unless it's cost effective
their #1 goal is to avoid the luxury tax -- it is a business after all
so you can forget about the arriettas, stantons and harpers -- it's just not going to happen, nor should it
they have a winning formula which has gotten better every year
i mean, all this doom and gloom (and to be fair, i've been part of it) when we were one or two breaks away from being world champions
could have easily won games 2 and/or 5, and then we're not even talking about a game 7
that is the difference
It's hardly cheating. It's taking advantage of a weakness.
Agree on sign stealing. Easy remedy.
All of a sudden I realize, his right hand, every time he’s going to throw the fastball, puts it in and it never moves because he already has the grip. But every time he’s going to throw the slider, and you see a little bit of movement. That’s all you need.
Yeah, I saw some YouTube videos. He would change his grip in the glove for breaking balls but not fastballs.
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