Discussion in 'Los Angeles DODGERS' started by CapnTreee, Aug 12, 2016.
Damn well written, Tafnac.
Thank you for your perspectives.
Agreed that capitalism is far from failing in fact it could be stated that it is working quite fine, though in doing so presents it's own long term drawbacks.
Agreed that economic illiteracy abounds and this is unlikely to change; which permits greater lies to follow
Not in agreement about "everyone doing better" as the ever increasing income inequality alone belies this assertion. However we do agree that our western society, as a whole, continues to improve our lives daily but the growing division between 'Haves' and Have Nots' demonstrates that 'better' is highly subjective and applies primarily to those of means
Agreed that universal suffrage always fails for there will forever be a larger body of 'downtrodden masses' than that of those taxpayers capable of feeding them while retaining profit earned from sweat
If we agree that 'those people are stupid, petty and irrationally jealous' then do we see value in retaining an Electoral College? Clearly it's the unwashed masses clamoring loudest for a straight popular vote
These are complex and interrelated issues that few take an effort to analyse. I knew that your distaste for any position I present would cause you to examine them in support of your own Libertarian views. Thanking you again. When wealth and access to the growth of greater wealth is shared among the populace then societies prosper and happiness is spread more evenly.
When elected leaders are supported in openly lying (Trump), when they plainly conspire to defraud the populace as was the case with the GOP led US Treasury / Goldman $achs 2008 "recession, when the entirety of the US populace is fleeced for 40% of their life savings while the largest crooks/banks are rewarded for being "too big to fail" then they will always seek a vengeance.
As a business owning capitalist I abhor seeing such a system ruined by the theft of it's leaders. I personally found Dalio's reliance upon lying statistics including "unemployment rates" galling and his twisting of those stats to suit his means quite deceitful. Further McCullough's own fanning of the flames of "overwrought rhetoric" that he protests is equally disingenuous obfuscation
Reading this @rube , @LAdiablo and wondering what howls of protest would arise if this came from the leader of any different religion.
"So what are we to make of the strange text that Benedict XVI, the pope emeritus, unleashed on the world this week, in which he effectively blamed the abuse crisis in the Catholic Church on the freewheeling sexual revolution of 1968?" as if such platitudes could possibly excuse the closeting and protection of decades of widespread pedophilia?
It strikes me that within the US, and indeed the western world in general, we give unique 'space' to corruption within the rich Catholic Church and yet our religious right buhlievers and Bible thumping nut jobs are the first to howl about Muslims. Or Jews. Or others worshiping 'holy' books of fables. False piety sucks more than buhlievers can grasp.
Ratzinger isn't writing ex cathedra. He's expressing his opinion. He can opine on anything same as you or I. Also, he's not Pope now, so pardon me, but big fucking deal.
That said, he's correct. The free love era gave us the Pill, which has CREATED cervical and ovarian cancer, highly resistant strains of gonorrhea, syphilis, and chlymdia, and catapulted divorce from semi-common to standard setting for marriage. Sodomy aside, is The Church to blame for the colossal goat fuck of the American family? No, it isn't. Blame secular humanism for that one.
You can't espouse both mindsets simultaneously. Either the Church is out of touch and operating on the fringe of relevance for decades, which makes their collusion to coverup the sex abuse more explicable, OR the Church is relevant and influential despite the pop culture assumptions to the contrary, and the scandal is a by-product of Her complacency atop the cultural power structure.
Which is it?
As for your false equivalence with mutant Islam, I call bullshit. That's an easy slam but it lacks true punch power. The Church deserves every bit of criticism and corrosion She gets for her sins. Just please show me where the Islamic church owns her/his genital mutilation stance? Her hurling faggots off buildings stance? Its fatwa legitimacy stance? The Sharia Law position stance? The 'Die Israel' stance? The women walk in a man's shadow stance? Or is there NO papal authority in that idolatrous rape-centric cult called Islam? There isn't, is there?
Islam has no culpability as they have no center. They merely continue to defecate on civilization as they please with impunity while Democrats nationwide defend their every inhuman gesture.
Look, brother. I'm Roman Catholic. I'm hard core. And I'll hold your beer while you lynch every sodomite priest and power lesbian nun that's proven guilty in a court of western law ... but don't you EVER pretend that what my Church has done even approaches the abominations against mankind that Mohammad's goat fucking shepherds have done for 1300 years. It's not apples and oranges. It's apples and iguanas. It isn't even close. No way. Not in this lifetime or any other. GTFOOH.
Not espousing both mindsets at all. I stand firmly on the church's being out of touch and largely irrelevant. I'm mostly pointing out that their hypocrisy is casually overlooked. Eternally.
Further when I 'was' a Roman Catholic we had popes that were popes until death. No such thing as a former pope unless I saw his crypt under the Vatican. When one is/was a pope then they remain a pope. Period. No time off for bad behavior, of which the Rat is as guilty as nearly all papal leaders. His opining weak ass excuses is VASTLY different than yours or mine. He personally was involved in hushing pedo news within church walls. So we'll agree to disagree about his speaking "ex-cathedra" ...for once a pope always a pope.
Buddy, Thanks for holding my beer. Indeed my central point was that we as a society at large tend to look aside when ever more news of Catholic church pedophilia arise every third week. Yes this strikes too close to home, yes it is personal. No I wasn't molested. Yes an pedo uncle was reassigned repeatedly throughout the midwest, for decades. Yes I hold the corrupt church responsible for every boy molested after they learned of the first one. No the 'church' is not innocent. No pope Rat is not permitted to blame 'society' for the church's or their pedo priests sins. Own your shit or shut your trap. It's shameful that pope Rat even attempts to pawn off blame. He's nothing but a sackless Coward, far from those attempting to live ethical lives with or without religion.
Thanks again for holding my beer, permit me to kill it while I compose the next reply
Again, the purpose of my post was to highlight how the Catholic church gets a pass.. always. In America we look the other way. I intend to offer nothing close to false equivalence, except that by the crudest of measures each are Organized Religions and as such collect coin of the realm to assist their praying upon the masses. I defend a stance of being steadfastly against ALL Organized Religions having seen too much too close for too long.
With that out of the way might I agree that the crimes of the Catholic church, at least this century, are far less egregious than the Muslims. For that matter the crimes of Israel and the Jews in Golan or Gaza are also far less egregious than the Muslims. Let us not revisit ancient history for sins of our Catholic church rebuking science and knowledge caused the Dark Ages. Yep the Muslim's back then embraced science & knowledge that 600+ years ago was lost because of Catholic zealots for hundreds of years. Set the planet back we did.
Be that as it may, both of these Organized Religions appear far more moral than the Muslims. Sharia law is straight out racist and gender hatred oddly similar to many views of the current frothing falsely pious GOP 'puritans'. Genital mutilation, encouraging hateful fatwa's against whomever, insisting upon Israel's demise, and demanding subjugation of women all rank high on the list of why these are cruel and evil peoples. And yes, in my travels abroad, I have received and enjoyed hospitality from devout 'moderate' Muslims (should it turn out that there is such a thing) and they too claim 'don't blame us for the actions of a few'. Where have we heard that malarkey before?
I have zero interest in defending the idiotic Muslim buhliefs. They are 3/4 sun baked and too stupid to admit it. They are evil of heart. They espouse hatred of women and defend restricting their rights solely because of their gender. Sounds rather like the GOP once again if one ponders it closely. Those promoting Pro-Life stances are as close as our country gets to Muslim buhliefs. Why old white men spouting 2000 year old fables feel they have the right to ignore the separation of church and state and tell all women what they can or cannot do with their bodies sounds really close to Sharia nonsense, and yet Faux News promotes it tirelessly. And slobbering fools clap hands and support the 'conservative' cause even if it means killing the mothers those same males impregnated. What lunacy gets defended in the name of "conservative buhliefs" spouted by all manner of falsely pious O.R. charlatans. What is 'conservative' about any of this mockery of fairness? What Chistian kindness?
Still I agree with you that greater evil today comes from Islam which is no more a religion of peace than the GOP is a party of 'conservative' people. Oxymorons one and all. If one attempted to rank Organized Religions by most evil I'd place Islam near the top.. perhaps right behind Scientologists. Of course that's a fluid scale for the bat shit crazy Dianetics fools aren't trying to return the globe to the miseries of the 13th century. So yes we agree that Islam is far more evil, though that was not my original point. Can you perceive that only the Catholic church gets a pass repeatedly for moral transgressions that never seem to end?
On a lighter note
At least he's supported by the O.R. "moral majority".. a moron supported by fools buhlieving in yet another oxymoron
@Finski , THANK YOU for the thought provoking replies. Now I find I'm stuck on parallels.. consider how many of Trumps hate filled lies closely resemble fatwa's.
Painting all Mexican's or Central Americans or any persons of color as being rapists and thieves coming from "shit holes" sounds real similar to how ultra religious war mongering hater Bibi Netanyahu refers to Arabs... and also how Iranian mullah Hassan Rouhani refers to all Westerners.
Too similar are these three.
When Trump excuses and encourages racial hatred, when he tells his buhlievers that he'll "pay their legal bills for attacking his enemies" his intemperate language and orange hairdo rather reminds one of a frothing Muslim in a headscarf the resemblances are so close
Tomorrow is Tax Day for Americans.. too bad it will never be Tax Day for these mega corporations that paid not a penny and yet get returns instead on billions in earnings. Figures are in Millions of $. Example Amazon made $10,835,000,000 in earnings and received a tax refund of $129,000,000 so they got back a ~1% refund on $0 moneys paid proving Jack Welch's point that it's far cheaper to purchase a few Congressmen and hire a few current and former IRS employees who write tax code to specifically suit these corporate behemoths.
Like it or don't like it but learn who your enemy is and it isn't some loudmouth Irishman who attempts to show you the data of how you're getting screwed. We knew the @GOP was just doing a giant favor for their corporate donors and friends. We knew it would add to an already unsustainable deficit. And we knew the middle class were an afterthought but seeing it in dollars not being paid brings the pain home.
So if you're voting GOP know that you're either a billionaire or you're stupid. Check your own wallet.
Company U.S. Income Federal Tax Effective Tax Rate
Amazon.com $10,835 –129 –1%
Delta Air Lines $5,073 –187 –4%
Chevron $4,547 –181 –4%
General Motors $4,320 –104 –2%
EOG Resources $4,067 –304 –7%
Occidental Petroleum $3,379 –23 –1%
Honeywell International $2,830 –21 –1%
Deere $2,152 –268 –12%
American Electric Power $1,943 –32 –2%
Principal Financial $1,641 –49 –3%
FirstEnergy $1,495 –16 –1%
Prudential Financial $1,440 –346 –24%
Xcel Energy $1,434 –34 –2%
Devon Energy $1,297 –14 –1%
DTE Energy $1,215 –17 –1%
Halliburton $1,082 –19 –2%
Netflix $856 –22 –3%
Whirlpool $717 –70 –10%
Eli Lilly $598 –54 –9%
IBM $500 –342 –68%
Goodyear Tire & Rubber $440 –15 –3%
Penske Automotive Group $393 –16 –4%
Aramark $315 –48 –15%
AECOM Technology $238 –122 –51%
Tech Data $203 –10 –5%
Performance Food Group $192 –9 –4%
Arrow Electronics $167 –12 –7%
Source: Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy
All that matters from this post is that you think half of the country is stupid.
I think more like 90% are stupid...ore more accurately, not appropriately informed on the issues that they're deciding with their votes.
or more accuratly?
Stupid and Ignorant/Uninformed are wildly different.
You can take it as a given that people are uninformed or ignorant of most of these subjects.
But not stupid.
That is the same as calling people deplorable.
Just wait till the stupid deplorables get tired of all the intelligent gentiles.
Yeah..that's why I corrected it inline.
Uninformed is more correct.
But how do you describe it when people are purposely uninformed or misinformed?
And it's absolutely a concern if all the deplorables get sick of it. Not good for any society if lots of people are unhappy about things. That's why we need more bread and circuses.
But then that means you need to conquer more breadbaskets and big tents.
Problem is that once you empty the breadbaskets and big tents where do you think those populations are gonna go?
America leaves bastards all over the world.
Those bastards eventually want to look for daddy.
And they all know who their daddy is.
He who feeds you and spanks you.
When people are purposely uninformed they are willfully ignorant. Still ignorant though.
Misinformed is another term for lied to. Be it by accident or maliciously.
Are people who vote against their immediate interest misinformed?
Not if they have a different way of looking at the information.
Maybe the kind of people who seem ignorant or stupid are simply the kind of people who know the value of struggle and understand that doing what is best for others is best for all of us. Maybe they do what they feel is best for the country at large, the economy, those less fortunate, or even those that control the captain chairs of industry.
Maybe these stupid people who vote for laws that help those that view them as stupid instead of for laws to help themselves because they know that those that see them as stupid need the help more than they do.
The only true deplorables are the ones who see common people as deplorable.
And even then you gotta cut them some slack.
Because they are just poor pitiful people who have way too much education to know what to do with the money they have been blessed with. Their schooling has clouded their judgment because an overload of information/facts makes you think like you know enough to pass judgment.
You have to pity them and help them.
They truly have no idea what they are doing to themselves.
Like Nero did the middle and upper classes will blame the deplorables.
Because the deplorables warned them that the fire was coming.
And now that the fire is burning downtown all that Nero can do is blame the deplorables.
Because since the deplorables smelled the fart first why arent they shitting their pants?
Maybe the deplorable was just the canary in the coal mine who is tired of singing only to die and this time wore some flame retardant depends.
We didn't start the fire... but we can sure play a mean fiddle.
People who vote against their own interests may or may not be misinformed.
They may be choosing to sacrifice for the greater good. Or they may value something more than their own interests.
But often, people are duped into voting for something they think is in their interest but really isn't.
Or even more often, and even more dangerous, people are duped into voting for something they think is for the greater good, but is really only in a few peoples' interests.
Are you duped?
I don't vote, so no.
At least not about that.
But all the rubes get duped from time to time, don't we?
Ignorant or uninformed is one thing
Repeatedly ignoring plain data that all can verify tells everyone that you're no longer ignorant but willfully uninformed
Remaining willfully uninformed over time is not done by those at all interested in learning to make their lives better
Choosing to be duped over and over is plainly not a trait of a learned man
Claiming to be duped because the liar stoked inner racist fears is also not being duped
It's being stupid. On purpose.
Now go ahead and defend Trump and his racist lies again and compel me to use even simpler words
You weren't being duped. And you don't resent being insulted by the word stupid.
You just don't like hearing truth from Me.
In fact others might attempt to argue being duped but not you @rube
You like to teach using obscure parables, surely not the sign of one claiming to be being duped.
I've learned much from you personally Rube. Because I care enough not to be duped.
I remain surprised at the antipathy I encounter here at DSP led by your charge
All the time too.
Separate names with a comma.