FEDIT POLITICS Thread

Not to let down the seething DSP fan boi's but I actually agree with most of what you state. Wait what?
We agree that not all of the anger can be thrown at Trump's feet. Can I get a 99.94% puhlease? OK ok if you'll even acknowledge that he contributes to the problem and not the solution we're making more progress than he ever will.
We also agree that certain red headed sluts pretending to cut off his head on stage isn't comedy either. Has she gone away to die alone yet?
Seriously we agree yety again that politics in general "IS" as ugly and polarized as ever.. and it appears that both sides want this to get worse rather than better. Idiots abound.

The GOP are certainly not pulling back any efforts to strip our populace and land as fast as humanly possible. Whatever is the absolute worst thing for American citizens appears the GOP credo, you must admit. Oil company cornies replacing other oil company cronies at the EPA? Really? Only if you OPENLY do not care for America can you be OK with shit like that.
Trump is certainly not making any moderating efforts with any of his agitating words or hateful tweets. Further he makes a personal point to insult virtually every acquaintance or world leader as a 4th grade sort of machismo. Calling a woman horse face is not how a POTUS acts unless you just hate all women. I know that you don't.

The key fact to recall when sweating the Faux overhyped Antifa idiots (yes they are idiots, proving that neither side is immune from idiots), but the key fact lost it appears is that the Antifa have virtually ZERO media access (beyond Faux News scaring people) as compared to Trump being almost the most followed, most listened to human on the planet. There's like a 1000:1 ratio of his anger mongering vs. their impetent output. Even Progressives and Liberals (they're different despite DSP screeds) want nothing to do with the Antifa idiots very much UNLIKE the Trumpettes slavish adorations from all corners of the GOP.

 

I'm personally in agreement.

Not that anyone here at DSP is above cheap insults, however I personally try to leave a pithy learning opportunity alongside.

Young man appears wound very tight.. another caught in the cast you described earlier

 

not sure why people w common sense are "fan bois"
you seem rather obsessed w the concept but all i see are free thinkers
people can only repeat "racist" so many times before it loses meaning
the democratic party is a clown show and i don't think many out there find anything in common w clinton, pelosi, waters et al
raise taxes, open borders, socialism is good...quite the message
what happened to that Russia thing again?

 

That's why I didnt even respond.
Nothing to work with

 

Do you truly believe tax cuts are the answer? We've tried this a few times before and it failed each time. Trump's tax plan is virtually a poor replica of a failed macroeconomic policy proposal, trickle-down economics, that essentially transfers wealth to the highest income earners. I actually benefit from the bill but I can't be okay with a bill that makes so many people worse off and drags our country into a length economic malaise that will be tough to overcome.

Open borders... This is one of the few topics I am conservative on.

Socialism? Socialism is a buzzword. A pejorative for social or economic ideas that republicans dislike. Actual socialism is a failure as it removes most of the incentives that drive human decisions in the economy. But those who have issues with social welfare (which by and large doesn't actually require socialism) and socialized medicine simply do so because of their misunderstanding of the terms and not what the policies stand for. The goal of universal health care --and what Dems aspire to do-- is to provide health care for all citizens. Not just because it is a human right, but because it creates a healthier more productive populace, which in turn puts less strain on public resources, thus growing the economy and benefiting the country as a whole. Many other countries have socialized health care systems in place that are far superior than ours. Israel reformed their health care system in 1995 and has seen ample benefits. Their current results put them well ahead of the US on many measures including the percentage of GDP spent on health care.

Look, I understand if you want to argue for a stronger social safety net and for policies that aim to reduce structural discrimination and inequality, that is a debate worth having, but its not 'socialism.'

 

How do you propose we pay for univeraal health care?

I literally have never heard a single answer to this question. If you can provide one, I'd love to read it.

 

Why hasn't she been crucified yet?

Why is the tolerant and all accepting base laughing at the statement?

 

I thought we shouldn't demonize people.

Imagine if they replaced "white men" with brown men or black men or yellow men or red men...

 

Methinks that the Devil should admit he has a following on DSP.
Also that "common sense" DOES NOT EQUAL agreeing with the POTUS on 90%+ of topics.
Of course no self respecting "free thinker" would do such a stupid thing as supporting lawlessness, harassment of women, children and minorities. What "man" abuses beings of lesser stature and then brags about it? POTUS. What sort of 'man' defends such cowardly actions?

I'm tired of the term "racist" being over used too. Like at DSP? Me too. By making 'fun' of the term truly does desensitize one we agree again. Note also that "I" didn't use it.

Dude the Democratic Party "IS" a clownshow. Worse, a shitshow without a barker. Fuck if they had their own hands even partially clean then they could OWN the high moral ground.. instead they whine.. But but but the GOP gets to take SuperPac $$$ so we 'have' to take the money toooooo. Bullshit. End Citizens United and "FIND" some ethics and spine. Yeah, not this week, I know.

We also agree that the WORST Democrats are Clinton, Pelosi and Feinstein. And holy cow the Dems are talking about letting Hillary run again for POTUS in 2020!?!?! Can one define stupid any more thoroughly. Insanity = The act of repeating an act and expecting a different result. Hillary WILL NEVER WIN, too many people have reasons, valid or invalid, to hate her guts. Viscerally. Yet somehow America still loves Slick Willie. "F" his bkitch for the duration.. and yet no one will tell her??!!?!?
Because "she wants to win"?!?!?! WTF!?!?! I have to shake my head at how easy this is going to make it for the GOP winning 2020.
Not good for the US of A at all but the Dems are so damned clueless.

 

Points to agree with..
1) the 'message' being provided to the Right through Faux News about what the "Left" wants.. are NOT what the Left wants.
2) raise taxes is what happens when you permit open theft to be "repatriated". Count those Billions of taxes cheated from payment by ONLY mega large coporations before sweating that someone on the 'other' side is going to "raise taxes" which you and I will have to pay. That is on the GOP.
3) Open borders is a great topic.. and every single time someone tries to defend this flawed concept I ask them if they have taken their own front and back doors off off the hinges and burned them? Why of course not ya hypocrites so why should our borders NOT be patroled?

So what happened to the solution granted to POTUS father and family and that of our own great grandparents? You stand in line You fill out your forms, You pass your basic citizenship test, You get your Tax ID # and promise to pay taxes and You move along. No one stopped OUR families forefathers for decades at a time. We need to stop being hypocrites on BOTH sides of the aisle on this issue.

Or is that too "Free Thinking" of me??

 

You stop people from charging $800 for a bag of saline or $120 per bandaid like they do everywhere else
USA healthcare is one of the few that routinely bankrupts individual payers
while our gubberment or Big Insurance pay $0.17 - $0.21 cents on the dollar
so it's a stilted system of over charging that no one pays but the guy without coverage
so now the game is to cover a few as possible
so that more people get royally screwed if they get hurt

 

no way is it a following
its a show of mutual respect amongst brothers that think for themselves
i listen and learn same as anyone
can't argue on your other points
wanna know why pocohontas is being denied a seat in DC restaurants?
doesn't have a reservation
sorry most of us aren't that kind of crazy

 

Before we get into the costs to provide universal health care, I think it is important for me to ask two questions first. Number one is, do you agree everyone should have access to health insurance, or, really, to health care? That is, do you think it is a fundamental right and that nobody should die due to lack of funds for health care that exists, but is expensive? And number two, do you agree we should consider the output in addition to the input to determine the efficacy of any proposed plan?

If you agree with the first question then the intuitive response becomes who pays for it. Before we get into the histrionics over tax rates, the number one thing I would suggest is to reduce our defense budget. With no border disputes or imminent threat of war, simply reducing our defense spending could free up billions of dollars annually. To supplement this and to properly fund universal health care, there would also need to be an increase in (income) taxes. But if the poor are exempt from this rise in tax because, well, they’re poor (I hope that’s self-explanatory), then the real question is the redistribution of this cost to the remainder of the population. And I don’t think there’s a ‘right’ answer to that. However, if you ask me if I am willing to pay an extra $1,000 annually to help make sure the poorest Americans have basic health care, then my answer would be yes. I am well aware many others would say they could not. Others would simply not want to. Once again there is no right answer. But if you agree health care is and should be a fundamental right then there is no way you can expect to give everyone access to health care and expect everyone to pay for themselves. It is just not viable.

And my second question was more so rhetorical. The answer is obviously yes. I ask it because we must remind ourselves of the many potential benefits of universal health care. The real question isn’t how much will it cost us, but rather, how much will it save us over x amount of years. It is the same reason one would install solar shingles on their home or choose to go to graduate school. It is an expensive investment but the idea is that it will pay for itself over time. And in this case it would save us on per-capita spending (standardized for age) on health care, generate a more productive workforce, and stimulate greater economic growth. This will positively impact everyone and the country as a whole. Nearly all cost-benefit and cost-effectiveness analyses on universal health care point to positive results.

I apologize for the long response for what appeared to be a simple question. I felt it was necessary to include context and details to fully address the question.

 

This is one of the most prominent issues with free market health care and why the GOP’s plan is flawed. Price gouging is a common tactic used to inflate profits in the health care industry. Examples such as Mylan (EpiPen) and Turing Pharma (Daraprim) illustrate the inherent failures of free market health care. The proper functioning of a free market depends on a lot of things being in place, like low barriers to entry, perfect information, elastic supply and demand, and so on. Most of these fall apart in the market for health care as health care is an inelastic good. That is why reducing costs is much more important than price elasticity, which is what the GOP keeps pointing to with HSAs –saying that if you’re not spending your own money, you stop caring whether you’re overpaying. That is true for most goods, but doesn’t appear to be true for health care, at least not in any way that can inform policy. If you or a loved one needs lifesaving care, you will pay everything you have. That is an open invitation for providers to charge as much as possible and, like you mentioned, routinely bankrupt individual payers.

 

you can't say socialism is a buzzword when you have avowed socialists running for office all over the country
just saying its a phantasm is disingenuous when you know that EXACTLY what marxist leftist want
and yes tax cuts because taxation is theft
you don't have a right to my money period
and you don't have a "right" to the services of another person including health care sorry
how you can think the gubberment run health care is the answer baffles me to no end
they have fucked up everything they have ever touched
i want to take care of people who need it but the problem is the corruption and abuse that occurs in every entitlement
i don't want to hear how small the amount of money is compared to the military etc audit that shit
nothing should be free if you have the ability to work you need to contribute to society somehow
and social security is not an entitlement
as far as the influx of migrants i feel very strong about taking care of Americans first
when every city has tents on the streets we need to address that before ever entertaining more poor but thats the democrat stance
bring em in
i firmly believe if the other entitlements were cleaned up the money would more than be there for indigent health care

 

I don't think an extra $1000 from the likes of capn, diablo, yourself, and others is gonna be enough to cover the estimated 34 trillion it would cost over the course of 10 years for universal health care.
Not interested if feelings about if it is a human right or not. I just want to know how we cover the cost.

Disagree wholeheartedly about cutting our military spending, I am always in favor of increasing it.

 

mmmmhmmm OK you go with that.

then we're way closer in thought than either of us have yet expressed.. because the remaining topics are clearly way more important.

 

Umm are you riding on @TAFNAC libertarian coat tails? To that extremist nonsense I offer that "I" drive on roads and highways that 'someone' paid for (my taxes); I enjoy my house not burning to the ground so I'm down to support the Fire Dept (Tom thanks us for our taxes); likewise I prefer mostly law and order (go figure) so I'm down with paying for the OC Sheriffs (my taxes again)

Now while I myself think that the IRS should have been throttled back decades ago myself, and that 250,000+ pages of tax code is essentially 249,000 pages of DC condoned corporate theft. I also have agreed with numerous other Liberatarian aspects that @TAFNAC espouses, however overall it is bullshit to state outright that "taxation is theft".

Exactly the enjoying all of the privilages of being an American citizen, in enjoying the 'American way of life' indebts one to the concept of paying taxes.

Before moving along was it really your intent to defend this poorly conceived notion?