The guy is what he is. A meathead, who still strikes out a lot (not as much) but boy can he walk into one. Adam Dunn with less stick, and more defence. I can live with it. He isn't going to be the 30/30 player I hoped he would, but what he is is good enough. IMO.
Either way both Joc and Dunn are 3 true outcome guys Walk, strikeout, HR And that's fine, especially for a guy at a premium defensive position It's on LAD to keep building it up around him
I would be fine with his production if there were proven guys around him who could hit in volume. Right now there are too many low BA guys. There are several stats I go to before even considering BA, but when your team has so many guys below .250 it's no wonder why we can't hit with RISP. We don't have enough well rounded hitters. Drawing walks, running into some HR and playing D is great. But if you don't have well rounded hitters who can put the bat on the ball, you're not gonna score on a regular basis. This is a Dodger problem more than a Joc problem. I still think they need to set the bar higher for Joc and not accept what he is without trying to improve.
no professional MLB starting outfielder should feel safe hitting less than .270 at that level you're merely a journeyman. Desired MLB outfielders always hit closer to .300 and add at least 20 HR's and 80 RBI's per year. .300/30/100 makes you a stud. Accepting Joc hitting .234 means we'll always have an under producing outfield even with good D.. yada yada Joc needs to hit .270+ or he's costing us too much.. at any price
Currently a .236 average, which is also neither here nor there. A +.800 OPS is where he is and ultimately should be for the long haul considering his talent. League average is .730ish, so if he ends up being a guy who's around 100pts above the average OPS it'll be a win for his position. Always want to see progression at the plate with a young player and he's shown that and the ability to adjust as well. Right now I'm more worried about his defensive numbers, he's made some tough plays in the field going back on the ball, but coming in on the ball is an adventure.
Agree that the kid has talent and he's a + on drawing walks which gives a good OBP for how weak his BA is. An .800+ OPS would be nice. He needs to learn how to have something other than an or all nothing swing. though not become a banjo hitter either ...
I don't think he needs to hit .270. I'm not fixated on any BA number in particular. And as far as RBI, you can't really set a bar for a cumulative stat that's based so much on opportunity. If he improves his bat to ball skills and becomes a better overall hitter, things like that will fall where they may. But he can't be so damn close to the mendoza line. Career .215 isn't gonna get it done (although it has to this point). He's got a great eye for the strike zone. He doesn't swing at a bunch of garbage. He whiffs or pops up pitches in the zone. My point is to set the bar higher. Obviously he's already proving his worth. But he can improve.
Dont get blinded by numbers. Its sad how new baseball fans use numbers to rate a player. Numbers are very useful as part of a way to measure success. But they need context. Numbers out of context are a pretext. 1. If you hit a lot of homers and get on base strikeouts arent that important. Joc is ok in this regard. 2. If you get .900 ops but cant hit at a decent clip you are not getting it done. Why? Because fantasy stats dont equate to winning. When joc comes up to bat do you have any faith or hope? Of course not. When its clutch or RISP do you have faith he will get a homer or bring the baserunner home? Of course not. Do you feel he is a good player because of an .800 or .900 OPS when he has a .500 OPS in clutch situations? 3. Moderns who dont understand the point of SABR or why moneyball works get stuck on a meaningless point like RBIs are meaningless. Because it supports their narrative and allows them to ignore the important markers that truly tell you what players are good at baseball vs players good at fantasy baseball. 4. If joc was a true .800 hitter he would be a winner and help lift his team to wins by producing when needed and being a pillar on the team and not need his team to be better so he can be a serviceable mlb player.
Wow...reading this stuff makes me actually think that BA matters. So confused. Is it like big tits? Some like them, some don't care ? I posted last year, actually just before the season started, that Joc does have a hell of a problem coming on on the ball. He messed up several times on ST. I was rebuked as crazy that I thought that. But it is overlooked because of his going back and gettin' ' em at the wall. But it is a thing with him, indeed.
This is what I've been trying to say. While BA isn't high on my list of judging a player, there is a point where it is just too darn low and you cannot score this way. You need guys who can hit in volume. When the games get tight and the moments are bigger, t doesn't matter what value you produce over 162 from your premium position. You need to be able to hit!
this joc isn't the problem per se the problem is the unproductive lineup as a whole especially hitting with runners in scoring position and in clutch situations look at today's lineup... 2 guys hitting <.200 3 < .230 2 < .270 that is a lineup that is destined to fail they say pitching wins championships but if you can't score you're not winning shit
The 1st thing you have to remember is that we're talking about a 2nd year player and that he just had his swing/stance/approach broken down thoroughly and rebuilt all in one offseason. Now, that said, I obviously can't speak for everybody else, but when Joc is at bat in clutch situations I feel like he's going to have a solid AB. I would say regardless of the result or leverage within the game, 3/4s of the time Joc has solid ABs. And the last time I looked at his high leverage #s his OPS in these situations was closer .700, not .500 Now, he can improve in these situations, sure. However, results in clutch situations and the RBI stat are related, all about opportunities, so one really can't put all that much into those either, although they piss everybody off to high hell. Take into account his place in the batting order as well, meaning the kinds of pitches he'll get to hit and the approach opposing pitchers will take. All in all, if Joc remains where he is right now, a plus player offensively and potentially defensively as well, this particular farm product will be considered a success regardless.
