2014 HALL OF FAME

Discussion in 'Los Angeles DODGERS' started by southerndodgerfan, Jan 2, 2014.

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  1. harkeyed

    harkeyed DSP Legend

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    A lot of what you state here is correct, but please don't group Pete Rose into this class of scumbags. I agree with you and Capn that this whole process needs to be rebulit. The problem is that the "purist" don't want to change anything for the "integrity" of the game. Yet they looked the other way while everyone was roiding up???

    I guess it comes down to your own set of values on judging Pete. Gambling, Meh....
     
    harkeyed, Jan 3, 2014
    #21
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  2. MZA

    MZA MODERATOR Staff Member

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    Pete will go in when he's dead. Or at least as long as Selig is around. He fucking hates Rose.
     
    MZA, Jan 3, 2014
    #22
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  3. MZA

    MZA MODERATOR Staff Member

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    On the subject of PEDs, let's not act as if steroids are the only substances players have been using over the long history of baseball. Doctored balls, amphetamines. Players cheat. Baseball is wrought with cheaters and terrible people. Cheaters, racists, and guys who don't belong in the Hall. It's not perfect, and the writers need to stop acting like it is.
     
    MZA, Jan 3, 2014
    #23
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  4. carolinabluedodger

    carolinabluedodger DSP Legend

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    I was thinking the same thing while reading harkeyed's post, players have been using various drugs for years. Decades ago it was amphetamines and later cocaine.


    Btw...I doctored my balls as long as could, but they just couldn't take it any more...
     
    carolinabluedodger, Jan 3, 2014
    #24
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  5. BlueMouse

    BlueMouse 2020 World Champions

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    I agree. What Pete Rose did is completely different, and it didn't hurt the integrity of what he accomplished as a player. I clumped him in because he is being kept out of the hall (like the others) even though he was one of the best players of his generation. Also, I don't like him (not that I know him personally). He trolls around Las Vegas selling his autograph for a buck wherever he can. If I had grown up watching him play it might be different, but I'm a hair too young - so all I see is the weird autograph guy.
     
    BlueMouse, Jan 3, 2014
    #25
  6. irish

    irish DSP Staff Member Administrator

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    pete should get in before the juicers
    what he did was wrong, but (dovetailing on what mouse said) it didn't augment/enhance his performance as a player
    what he accomplished on the field was legitimate and hall-of-fame worthy
    shoeless joe and his teammates were a bit different in that what they did altered the outcome of games
    i don't know exactly where you draw the line
    all or nothing?
    maybe put them all in with asterisks :shrug:
     
    irish, Jan 4, 2014
    #26
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  7. carolinabluedodger

    carolinabluedodger DSP Legend

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    From day one I have always believed Pete should be in the Hall, what he did as a player is undeniable. What he did in his personal life was stupid and against the rules, but inconsequential.

    Right now I'm pissed I can't find my favorite editorial cartoon on the subject, from way back when. I've done a dozen searches but can't find the cartoon. In the top panel Giamatti says something to the effect of "Because Pete Rose gambled on baseball games he will NEVER be admitted to the Hall of Fame". In the bottom panel Rose says "Wanna bet?"
     
    carolinabluedodger, Jan 4, 2014
    #27
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  8. BlueMouse

    BlueMouse 2020 World Champions

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    I agree. What I always wanted to know was, who accepted a bet from a manager in MLB?
     
    BlueMouse, Jan 4, 2014
    #28
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  9. carolinabluedodger

    carolinabluedodger DSP Legend

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    He's kiddin' me, right?

    Lawyer
    Used car salesman
    Bookie


    Rank'em any way you like.
     
    carolinabluedodger, Jan 5, 2014
    #29
  10. SC_Ed

    SC_Ed DSP Legend Damned

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    No way Palmeroid was an average player IMO. How that guy ever put up significant numbers is baffling.

    I'd equate him with Karros, maybe Hrbek.
     
    SC_Ed, Jan 5, 2014
    #30
  11. SC_Ed

    SC_Ed DSP Legend Damned

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    So the criteria is a guy that makes a couple all star games, leads a league in a category or 2 for a year or so?

    The whole hall of fame has become the hall of pretty good players.

    Also It seems like anyone who ever hit over 300 in the negro leagues is in, yet players from the 70's-80's have to get these career milestones, 3000 hits, 500 hrs etc... even for consideration.

    Everyone has their own criteria which is sad because regional biases are absolutely in play here, with the majority of voters based in the mid Atlantic and north east.

    I think if you even have to question whether a guy should be in or not tells you right there he doesn't deserve it.
     
    SC_Ed, Jan 5, 2014
    #31
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  12. MZA

    MZA MODERATOR Staff Member

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    The Hall itself is very fucked up. There are too many old timers that look at certain stats for all players instead of looking at what makes those players great.
     
    MZA, Jan 5, 2014
    #32
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  13. CapnTreee

    CapnTreee Guest


    because the average voting age of the BBWAA is something like 88 years old...

    and they hold grudges for decades.



    Pete shouldn't have to die to have his STILL record # of hits ever be acknowledged by the HoF.

    OK the 'wanna bet' joke was a riot because it is so true, but he totally deserves to be in the HoF before all of the Selig approved roiders
     
    CapnTreee, Jan 5, 2014
    #33
  14. irish

    irish DSP Staff Member Administrator

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    you must have not watched him much
    he raked with the cubs, he raked with the o's and he raked with the rangers
    he was better than karros and hrbek combined
     
    irish, Jan 5, 2014
    #34
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  15. carolinabluedodger

    carolinabluedodger DSP Legend

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    Don't be confused. His record # of hits is in the hall, and his bat is in the hall, along with other memorabilia. It is only his likeness that is not in the hall. That's how fucked up the hall is.
     
    carolinabluedodger, Jan 5, 2014
    #35
  16. SC_Ed

    SC_Ed DSP Legend Damned

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    I politely disagree. When you think of sluggers you never thought of palmerio. Just my opinion of course but I would take Larry walker or Helton over him in a heartbeat.
     
    SC_Ed, Jan 5, 2014
    #36
  17. irish

    irish DSP Staff Member Administrator

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    never said he was a slugger
    only that his numbers were hall-of-fame worthy... and imo they are
    but the guy is a douche and he cheated, so fuck him

    walker and helton played in climate-aided colorado
    huge disparity in their home/road stats
    might as well enshrine andres gallaraga and dante bichette as well :poke:
     
    irish, Jan 6, 2014
    #37
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  18. CapnTreee

    CapnTreee Guest


    no confusion here... we're in complete agreement about the fucked up HoF...
     
    CapnTreee, Jan 7, 2014
    #38
  19. Boo_Radley

    Boo_Radley Well-Known Member

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    If I was a voter I would struggle with giving the nod to a DH. I think that because all they had to do was hit is a factor in why their numbers are so high.
    I know it is an official position in baseball and I'm not trying to convince people to go my way. I just struggle with that. If Garvey or Ron Cey played as a DH for the second half of their careers could you imagine what their numbers would be?

    Today on MLB radio I listened to the guy who only voted for Morris and even though he sounds like a decent guy who loves baseball I think his decision to not vote for anyone else (especially in my opinion Maddux) is foolish.

    Without hesitation I'd go with:
    Maddux
    Glavine

    consider:
    Schill
    Piazza
    Kent (didn't like him, total jerk but he was one of if not he best 2nd baseman for almost his entire
    career)
    Garvey


    Struggle with:
    Bags
    biggio

    There are others, this isn't as easy as it seems
     
    Boo_Radley, Jan 7, 2014
    #39
  20. Boo_Radley

    Boo_Radley Well-Known Member

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    Tim Raines deserves serious consideration
    Frank Thomas what percentage of his career did he play as a DH?
     
    Boo_Radley, Jan 7, 2014
    #40
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