I didn't misunderstand. I knew you meant this season. And I still contend that he has not been great. He's been pretty good. If he'd been great this season, then he wouldn't be 5th or whatever among 2nd basemen...he'd have been 5th OVERALL. THAT would be GREAT.
Gordon keeps making his case for Dodgers By Brian Kamenetzky | Special to ESPNLosAngeles.com LOS ANGELES -- He still looks as if he sneaked into the park through a hole in a fence, then into the clubhouse putting on a uniform originally slated for a bat boy. Even after an offseason of weightlifting left him 13 pounds heavier -- still listed at only 170 pounds -- we're talking almost 10 percent of his body weight, though one sideways turn and he can nearly disappear. And despite posting All-Star worthy numbers over the first half of the season, Los Angeles Dodgers second baseman Dee Gordon still doesn't like talking about himself. After going 3-for-5 with two doubles, an RBI, and a run scored Saturday in a 9-1 win over the St. Louis Cardinals, Gordon dutifully tried to escape the Dodgers' clubhouse before the media could reach him, backpack slung over his shoulder. Were we at USC's Dedeaux Field instead of Chavez Ravine, you'd think he was heading home to study for finals. "I'm just trying to get better and better every day, and just see pitches and put good swings on it," Gordon said. "That's about it." Not exactly the type of self-promotion likely to land him in Minnesota on July 15 for the All-Star Game, no matter how much he'd like to go, though if storyline were the primary criteria, Gordon would be a sure thing. After hitting .304 over 224 at bats as a rookie in 2011, Gordon cratered in 2012 and 2013, batting .228 and .234, respectively, with an on-base percentage entirely too low for someone without any pop. Heading into spring training this year, it was believed the Dodgers had a massive hole at second base, and were allowing Gordon to audition there largely because they lacked other strong options. It was more a courtesy than a real opportunity. Then Gordon won the job and tore it up in April. After a slow May, he has rebounded well, raising his average more than 20 points between June 2-28 to .297. Overall, Gordon's OBP this month is a robust .368, and just to make sure people are paying attention before All-Star rosters are finalized, he has gone 11 for his past 17. "I think Dee's just more confident," manager Don Mattingly said. "I think you see him growing in that way. You see him a lot more confident, even with two strikes. He's not afraid to get a strike on him, now. He's not afraid to get into the count. He's showing that patience you need for that guy up top [of the lineup] but also showing the confidence that he's not afraid, and feels he needs to swing at the first pitch all the time." And while he's hardly a power hitter, the extra oomph provided by his offseason regimen has paid major dividends. His .409 slugging percentage is easily a career high. In 298 at-bats this year, Gordon has 22 extra-base hits, only four fewer than he recorded over 621 at-bats between 2011 and 2013. Saturday, Gordon's first double came when he ripped a high, inside 94-mph fastball from Cardinals starter Lance Lynn into the right-field corner, something he couldn't do before. The strength and bat speed to turn a pitch like that around simply wasn't there. "I think he's surprising everybody with his number of extra-base hits this year," catcher A.J. Ellis said. "As a catcher, facing a guy like that, it used to be, 'Don’t walk him. His best bolt's going to be a single.' But it's changed. If you lay one in there, he's going to hurt you." Walking Gordon still comes at a price -- he leads the majors with 40 stolen bases -- but now grooving fastballs to avoid walks does, too. Whether his current rally is enough to get Gordon to Target Field remains to be seen. There is stiff competition at his position. Philadelphia's Chase Utley has lapped the field in fan voting. Pittsburgh's Neil Walker leads the group in home runs with 11. Milwaukee's Scooter Gennett leads qualified candidates in average and OPS. New York's Daniel Murphy has been rock solid. Gordon's profile is strong. Strong enough? It'll be close. But that there's even a discussion means Gordon has already won. http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles...ng-his-case-for-dodgers?ex_cid=espnapi_public
He leads the league in triples, and would've had two more yesterday if one didn't bounce over the fence and later he was stuck behind Greinke on the base paths. He leads the league in steals. He's second among NL second basemen in WAR. He leads the team in runs scored and is third in OWAR. I feel safe saying that short of an injury or major regression second half of the season, the job is his for at least this year, and that's regardless of how well Guerrero hits in AAA.
as one of dee's biggest doubters heading into the season (and i know i wasn't alone) i am pleasantly thrilled, no -- make that giddy -- about his performance thus far he's far exceeded any expectations most (if not, all) of us had bravo dee
Before todays game 2.6 fWar in 77 games. Aggregated to 162 games ~5.47 wins. We'll call it 5.5 wins. Keep in mind this is his worth offensively as his defense has been exactly replacement level. 2.1 rWar. ~4.4 wins over 162 games. BR rates him slightly below replacement level defensively. How is either of these remotely adequate? If he improves his defense over the course of the next few years you're looking at a very solid regular at the least with ceiling of being a 5-6 win player And why should we take away his steals/bsr? thats so retarded. Lets just discount fact and what actually has occured Lets also take away Trouts defense and offense and say he's average also great logic
First, my post was made Wednesday before that days stats were posted (BR doesn't update till the next day), since then he has had 10 hits in 18 PA's. His rWAR was at the time 1.6. All of his stats have gained impressively since then. After Tuesday = .276 .332 .392 .724 After Saturday = .297 .350 .419 .770 So at the time of my post he was not projecting to a 5 win season. I didn't say "take away his steals", what I said was if his OBP drops it would effectively take away the steals. He is a speed player and in time his legs will fail as happens to all speed players, and his value will drop. And what makes you think his defense will improve? Maybe it will decline. I don't think we can predict it either way. Look, I said he was pretty good, but took exception to calling him great. If you want to call him great, then have at it. I'll continue calling him pretty good until he passes the test of time.
But you've been hating on Dee since the beginning of the year. I remember because I barely post here, and remember you cutting him down after I posted about his hot start (see link below). I'm not sure what your issue is with him. He's a Dodger, and he's balling. Embrace it. Additionally, I don't know how you can say Guererro without a doubt has a better bat, when you haven't even seen how he'd fair against major league pitching. Dee is hitting .290 right now, Guererro hit .290 against Cuban pitchers last time he played a full season. I hope Guererro ends up being a monster, and I hope Dee keeps hitting. Seems like a great problem to have, especially considering Hanley is physically falling apart right before our eyes and is in the last year of his contact. Dee-Alex combo might be our future double play combo for years to come. http://www.dailysportspages.com/ind...ague-prospects-thread.44/page-130#post-223776
As of the day this thread was started, Dee is hitting 13-27 (.481) and has raised his BA 17 points. I think we'd all like to see him walk more but he's more than doing his job atop the lineup. He's been a pleasant surprise to say the least and until he does a complete face plant I think he has more than earned the right to remain the everyday 2B
Yeah as of wednesday he also had a 2.1 fwar and was on pace for 4.5 wins. I wont argue the merits of which War you prefer but if you average them out (for arguments sake) you get about 4 win projection based on that production. That is very good and no where near adequate (if adequate means satisfactory basically. a C+ student if you will) 4 wins/5 wins. Argument still remains. He was performing very well, Im with you that he wont sustain this level of production. Of course his numbers will regress but what I was arguing was what has already occured. His production to date. He has performed til now as a 5 win player. That is fact. What he does the last 78 games I cant say. But the numbers showed (as of wednesday, batted ball statistics basically in line with career averages as was walk rate just a lower k rate) And his speed should be fine until he gets on the wrong side of 30 so he still has a few years of elite speed And his defense, UZR fluctuates quite a bit. (need a large sample size to get accurate data but he was rated below replacement level earlier so his defense, according to UZR, is trending upward. That and him being new to the position seems to give him potential for improvement.
Move dee to superutility that plays every chance. All the infield even third. Left field and if he can learn some c.f. he would be great. Eventually he will be more patient, if a little and draw more walks. He won't be a good defender bit good enough to plug any hole and hit leadoff and lead league in steals.
