I don't see how Maddux was using roids. His fastball topped at what 86? Control is what made him so successful. Maddux could put his pitches literally anywhere he wanted. If he was using it wasn't helping his amazing physique which was akin to a frumpy computer nerd rather than a yoked up Roid head.
Even if you want to discount Bonds and A-Rod, Pujols has had a considerably better career than Jeter.
Almost forgot about Pujols. Which a insane considering how long he's been around and was sch a dominant player for over ten years
Yeah, what's amazing about him is even if he's just a 2-3 win player for the tail end of his career, his prime still makes him one of the 10-15 greatest hitters ever.
L.A. sniffed coke drank whiskey tequila N.Y. smoked coke and drank vodka Braves probably smoked herb and drank beer and gin. Northern teams drank a lot Midwestern teams amphetamines South teams drank a lot of beer and lots of roids Pacific northwest herb and hgh
He was in the conversation but his recent decline, not to mention he's only a 2-3 tool player hurts him in my book. He plays a position where defense isn't as important as SS.
I'll put aside the hatred, and Bonds still doesn't make my top ten. Sorry, but whatever he accomplished in the second half of his career is irrelevant to me. Of players I saw, I'm going with Nolan Ryan. He pitched in four different decades. He played for some of the most god-awful franchises of the time, and still managed a winning record. How many of the all-time greats make it to age 40? Very few. Ryan struck out over 300 at age 42... and then played another four seasons after that. And if that isn't enough for you, then I'll throw in Robin Ventura. My case is closed.
I will give you that Pujols up until his move to the angles was a better hitter than Jeter but so is Miguel Cabrera.
Begrudgingly it would be Bonds with Ken Griffey Jr. as close 2nd. I know I am older but I didn't see Clemente play extensively because it was so rare to see Pirate games or any other games besides the Dodgers back in the day but he was amazing. Garvey I would say would be my choice if I was able to pick someone from my team.
Bonds was a Hall of famer before roids (never tested positive) tainted his 2nd half of his career. I don't discount the era either because we don't really know for sure if pitchers weren't enhancing themselves. NO I DON'T want to debate the PED stuff that would be too tiring.
i can say without a doubt that Jeter made the greatest play i have ever seen. running across the diamond to the first base side, cutting off an errant throw and backhanding it the plate to get Giambi in the playoffs was fucking incredible to me. intelligence, the will to win and never quitting on that play...still amazes me he did that. i know not many baseball fans agree w me cause it almost never comes up when people talk about the greatest play. and hatred aside it amazes me so many Dodger fans in this forum roll over for Bonds. i mean Manny was the greatest hitter i ever saw in a Dodger uni but he cheated so as much fun as he was to watch he isn't in my ten Dodgers. and no way was Maddux roiding lmao look at the guy.
^Was he putting foreign objects on his pitches like Gaylord though? Not saying he did but there are other forms of cheating. DEFINITELY not on roids though.
At the end of his career it was around 86. But when he was winning Cy Youngs it was comfortably 90-92 and touching higher.
Roll over for Bonds? I think that's a bit much. The Bonds issue really comes down to a steroid debate, and how you feel about it. If you choose to not take steroids into consideration for this debate, then the answer pretty much has to be Bonds.
He would be both. It's large in part why Babe Ruth is hands down considered the best baseball player ever. Although, Ruth really didn't do both at the same time - the first 4 years of his career he was primarily a pitcher, then he became primarily a position player and rarely pitched after that.
Exactly. Steroids or not, he was the best hitter many have seen. Now if the question was "Best player who wasn't associated w/PEDs", the answers would be different. Just because Manny tried getting pregnant in '09, doesn't mean we should discredit how incredible that '08 season was IMO. You still have to be able to hit the ball. There's a common misconception that you take steroids and then turn into some monster robot.
