Discussion in 'Los Angeles DODGERS' started by THINKBLUE, Oct 15, 2015.
my sentiments exactly
how many save opportunities is kimbrel going to get with that staff lol
I agree. They probably could have gotten Tyson Ross for not much more.
Nobody knows what the other offers were for Kimbrel, at least not yet. Maybe they gave up that much because other teams were also hot after him and they felt the need to win his services?
I don't understand the need to " do this first " and " then you can do that ". There's no order in which they have to operate. I'm sure they're not done spending and all in all we're talking about a Boston farm system that's pretty well stocked + they still have tradable OF chips on the big club. Dombrowski is damn good, dude. Let's see where they go with this 1st.
i want action mae
10 Dodgers storylines to watch
by Mark Saxon, ESPN Staff Writer — 1 hour ago
LOS ANGELES -- Andrew Friedman and his deputies arrived, surveyed the scene and apparently saw a Los Angeles Dodgers team that needed a lot of work last winter. They began by tinkering at the margins of the roster and by the time the winter meetings were over, they had largely overhauled the club.
They strengthened the middle of the diamond with veterans Jimmy Rollins and Howie Kendrick and padded out the rotation with high-upside, high-risk signings Brandon McCarthy and Brett Anderson. They traded a franchise icon, Matt Kemp, for a catcher with a big upside, Yasmani Grandal.
But compared to what is about to happen, the previous winter might have been merely a preview of the feature film. The Dodgers could be the most active team in trade and free-agent talks all winter, with Friedman and his group constantly looking for upgrades in all 40 roster spots. Like a college football coach who inherits a lot of the previous coach’s recruits, this front office could lay the blame for the Dodgers’ early postseason bow-out, in part, at the feet of Ned Colletti’s group.
By the time the team reports to spring training, they will have no excuses. The Dodgers will be their team.
Let’s examine 10 likely storylines for the Dodgers this winter:
Leadership void: The Dodgers are the only team in the major leagues without a manager. That will change by the time Friedman gets to the Gaylord Hotel in Nashville, Tennessee, on Dec. 6 for the winter meetings. In fact, it will probably change well before then.
Despite early reports that the team had settled on farm director Gabe Kapler as Don Mattingly’s successor, Friedman has cast a wide net and by the time it’s over, will have interviewed at least nine candidates. They're saying they are entirely open-minded, but many people still consider Kapler the favorite.
It makes sense to have a manager in place fairly soon, so that prospective free agents have an idea of what kind of team they’ll be joining, but it’s not imperative that it get done in the next couple of weeks. The Dodgers want to get it right. The last thing a team with World Series aspirations wants to do is create an unstable landscape where regimes come and go nearly every season.
The Greinke conundrum: The Dodgers got three brilliant seasons from Zack Greinke in the prime of his career. Now, after going 51-15 with a 2.30 ERA in three seasons for them, he -- to the surprise of no one -- has opted out of his contract, leaving $71 million over three seasons on the table because there is so much more out there for the asking.
At 32, Greinke is a free agent. Do the Dodgers wade into that pool and line up a five- or six-year, nine-figure contract, the kind of outlay it will take to sign a pitcher this good? Many people still seem to consider them the favorites to sign Greinke, but that hasn’t been the signal the team has been giving off.
The Dodgers are looking to get younger, and another mega-contract makes that more difficult. Also, team president Stan Kasten has a blanket policy against extending pitchers beyond a certain number of major-league pitches and Greinke, who has been durable throughout his career, has thrown more than 33,000.
Also, most people assume Greinke wants to come back, but his distaste for a culture that let Yasiel Puig ignore team rules for several seasons is believed to be a factor in his thinking. It will be painful to break up one of the greatest one-two pitching combinations in recent baseball history, but Clayton Kershaw probably won’t have Greinke as a teammate next season.
What to do about Puig? The question really boils down to one thing: How big a problem does Friedman and his group think Puig is for the kind of culture they’re trying to create? It could relate to Question No. 1, because by the end of Mattingly’s tenure, his relationship with Puig had deteriorated badly. The two didn’t speak and Puig was openly dismissive.
Perhaps the Dodgers can find a manager or coach who can finally reach Puig and bridge the gap between him and many of his teammates. He looks like the last of the Dodgers outfielders they would want to trade, considering his trade value is diminished by hamstring injuries and underperformance and he’s still only 24, making about one-third what Carl Crawford is making. The upside is still massive, particularly if Puig stays in shape this winter and is committed to reviving his career.
But this front office is more concerned about chemistry than people realize and, if they think Puig is a negative influence and they have suitors, they’ll consider moving him.
The rest of the rotation: Even if Greinke returns, the Dodgers still badly need starting pitching. Kershaw, Alex Wood and Anderson, who accepted his qualifying offer to remain with the team in 2016, are the only bankable assets. McCarthy, who had Tommy John surgery in April, might pitch in 2016, but it won’t be until July at the earliest. The team is hopeful Hyun-Jin Ryu can recover from shoulder surgery, but history hasn’t been kind to pitchers coming back from torn labrums, so they can’t count on it.
They hope prospects Jose De Leon and Julio Urias continue to progress, but neither figure to be on the Opening Day roster.
The Dodgers will be active in trade talks, but they also will almost certainly wade into a good group of free agents to find some answers. People will inevitably link them to David Price, but it might be more likely the team targets the second tier of guys, like Jordan Zimmermann and Mike Leake, John Lackey and Scott Kazmir.
Can they bank on Joc? After the All-Star break, center fielder Joc Pederson's batting average dropped 42 points, his OPS declined from .851 to .617, and he hit just six of his 26 total home runs. Overall, he struck out in nearly 30 percent of his plate appearances.
Is this a player the Dodgers can rely on as an everyday contributor?
He fits so well into their vision because he plays strong defense and still is just 23, but if his swing continues to be so susceptible to good pitching, the Dodgers will have to find ways to insure themselves in the outfield. They don’t think Puig can be counted on defensively in that position and the other outfielders are either too slow, too old or both.
Enrique Hernandez could be part of the solution, but he’s also going to need to play some second base unless the Dodgers get one of those from outside the organization. They’re unlikely to bring back Kendrick, whose defense is declining.
Is there hope for the bullpen? There is a line of thinking in baseball, one the Kansas City Royals just made look really good, that you can win with four or five decent but not dominant starters if you have a lockdown bullpen. The Dodgers, if they let Greinke walk, could move closer to this kind of model (when Kershaw isn’t pitching), but to do so, they will have to have a much better bullpen.
Chris Hatcher looked outstanding in September and October, so that gives reason to think the late innings could be less stressful than they were last season. It will pain Friedman to pay closer Kenley Jansen the raise he’ll earn in arbitration -- he could make more than $11 million -- because they’re not big believers in paying relievers big bucks, but trading him seems awfully risky.
J.P. Howell already picked up his $6.25 million option to return, so a lot of the bullpen is already set, but expect some turnover before spring training.
Is Corey Seager ready to take off? By the end of last season, you could have made a credible argument that he was the Dodgers' best hitter though he was only 21. Seager had an impressive month in the big leagues, batting .337 with a .986 OPS and playing better shortstop than many expected.
He muscled his way into the starting lineup and, if you look at his minor league record, he could get even better next season. Seager typically struggles when he arrives at a new level and then figures it out and gets hot. Mattingly, who knows hitting as well as anyone alive, thought Seager would be a better hitter in the major leagues than he was in the minors.
All signs point to great things, but players’ careers are rarely linear progressions and Seager could have some struggles along the way. He also has a frame that looks like it can support more muscle, so the question of whether he’ll be able to stay at shortstop could crop up quickly.
How to stop aging? Sadly, you can’t. The Dodgers’ two best hitters during the course of the season were Justin Turner (.861 OPS) and Adrian Gonzalez (.830 OPS). No one else was really close. Gonzalez will be 34 and Turner will be 31 coming off knee surgery.
Andre Ethier and Crawford are into their mid-30s and slowing down. The Dodgers can’t rely on the core of their offense to give them the same production next season that it gave them last season. At some point, they will need to find younger alternatives, but for now Gonzalez and Turner will be counted on heavily, and Crawford and Ethier will still have roles.
With this front office, though, there’s no stopping them when they get a notion. If they’re intent on getting younger, anyone could be moved at any time.
What about second base? The clearest misstep Friedman’s group has made so far was giving up too soon on speedster Dee Gordon. That’s not because Gordon led the National League with a .333 batting average or because he left the Dodgers largely bereft of base-stealing ability -- though both are true -- but because second base is now a quagmire.
Alex Guerrero clearly isn’t the answer. He doesn’t even play the position anymore. The Dodgers traded Hector Olivera to get Wood and others. Jose Peraza might be given a look, and Hernandez would badly like to be the everyday guy, but Peraza is just 21 and Hernandez couldn’t hit breaking balls from right-handed pitchers.
As of now, the Dodgers don’t have an everyday second baseman.
Will they even be visible? The one area Friedman’s group has no control of might be the most dear to Dodgers fans’ hearts. Will the team finally be on TV? Hall of Fame broadcaster Vin Scully, 87, has said he is feeling better after a health scare in the National League Division Series and said he’s raring to go in 2016, which will be his last season in the booth.
But the Dodgers still haven’t gotten distribution of their SportsNetLA station on DirecTV and other large carriers. Another season of blackouts will be a major blow to organization and further alienate them from its large, vibrant fan base.
what i've been screaming all along...
Title-hopeful Dodgers should go all in and sign both Greinke and Price
by Zachary D. Rymer | Bleacher Report MLB Lead Writer — November 13, 2015
he Los Angeles Dodgers are in the market for starting pitching, and word is they're willing to go big. They either want to re-sign Zack Greinke or, failing that, sign David Price instead.
But here's a crazy notion: Why not both Greinke and Price? And by "crazy," we of course actually mean "plausible and very much worthwhile."
First, let's be clear that signing both Greinke and Price doesn't appear to be the Dodgers' goal. Jon Heyman of CBS Sports has reported that they're the top two free agents on the Dodgers' radar but that there's only an either/or thing going on. Greinke is their top target, and Price is their "fallback option."
You can understand why the Dodgers feel they only need to sign one of them. They're coming off a year in which their starting rotation's excellent 3.24 ERA had a big hand in delivering a 92-70 record and a third straight NL West title. At the heart of that success was the unrivaled duo of Clayton Kershaw and Greinke, who combined for a 1.94 ERA in nearly 450 innings.
Re-signing Greinke, who led MLB with a 1.66 ERA, would keep the band together and potentially allow the Dodgers to repeat their 2015 formula in 2016 and beyond. Going for Price, whose 2.45 ERA gave him his second American League ERA title, could have the same effect.
But if one of them would be good, signing both would obviously be even better. Doing so would cost a lot of money, but...hey, these are the Dodgers we're talking about here.
Modern times being what they are, there's no mistaking that Greinke and Price are both in line for gigantic contracts.
In the wake of the seven-year, $210 million contract that Max Scherzer signed last winter, the price for elite starting pitching this winter will be at least $30 million per year. Tim Dierkes of MLB Trade Rumors is probably right on in predicting that Price, 30, will sign for seven years and $217 million and that Greinke, 32, will sign for five years and $156 million.
If that's where Greinke and Price end up, they'll both be on the hook for $31 million per year. So, if the Dodgers were to ink both, they could be adding a little over $60 million to their 2016 payroll. That's a lot of money for two players.
But too much? Maybe not for the Dodgers.
The Dodgers ultimately spent $310 million on payroll in 2015. As of now, Cot's Baseball Contracts has them on the hook for about $155 million in salary commitments for 2016, and MLB Trade Rumors has them projected to pay about $35 million in arbitration. That adds up to roughly $190 million.
If the Dodgers add Greinke and Price at their projected rates, they'd only be raising their 2016 commitments to $250 million. That's well short of where they can go, giving them room to make more additions even after dropping a couple king's ransoms on the kings of the free-agent pitching market.
And this is without even assuming that the Dodgers could backload Greinke's and Price's contracts so that the real money doesn't kick in until later. With the club's guaranteed salary commitments set to fall below $100 million as soon as 2018, that's something they could do.
Another thing to keep in mind: signing Greinke and Price would only cost the Dodgers money.
The Dodgers made Greinke a qualifying offer, and his inevitable rejection of it will tie him to draft pick compensation. But if it's the Dodgers who sign him, their first-round pick in 2016 (No. 25) will remain theirs. And because Price was traded in 2015, he was barred from receiving a qualifying offer. Ergo, signing both of them would not hinder the Dodgers' ability to keep adding young talent via the draft.
In all, we have how the Dodgers can sign both Greinke and Price. Now it's time for the second half of the equation: why they should.
As it has been in previous offseasons, the Dodgers' goal for this offseason is to make upgrades that will bring them not just more NL West titles, but the elusive World Series title they've been hot after ever since Magic Johnson rescued the team from Frank McCourt in 2012.
To do this, the Dodgers could pursue all sorts of options. It's just hard to think of one better than upgrading their rotation with Greinke and Price.
The Dodgers could upgrade their offense, which may seem like the right idea after it failed them down the stretch in 2015. But President of Baseball Operations Andrew Friedman said recently, via Eric Stephen of True Blue LA, that he sees the team as being "pretty locked in offensively." And he's right.
The Dodgers have solid starters at every position except second base, and what happened at the end of 2015 shouldn't obscure the fact that there's plenty of upside to be found in the Dodgers offense. The Dodgers had an elite offense early in 2015 and could again if Yasmani Grandal and Yasiel Puig can stay healthy and young guns Joc Pederson and Corey Seager make good on their potential.
The Dodgers could also upgrade their bullpen, which hasn't featured a solid bridge to the excellent Kenley Jansen in any of the last three seasons. But outside of Darren O'Day—who ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick says already has the Dodgers' attention—the free-agent relief market is very thin. Most of the action is on the trade market, where there aren't many sensible targets for the Dodgers.
As much as the Dodgers would probably love to have Aroldis Chapman, their young pitching (i.e. Julio Urias and Jose De Leon) may not appeal to a Cincinnati Reds team that needs young position players. Moving young talent to the San Diego Padres for Craig Kimbrel could backfire in the future. Andrew Miller is available, but Heyman writes that it may take an ace pitcher to land him from the New York Yankees. At present, the Dodgers only have one of those. And he's, uh, not available.
So, behold. We're left looking at Door No. 3: the Dodgers rotation.
If nothing else, the Dodgers rotation needs depth. Kershaw is still on top and is still awesome. But after him, Alex Wood is the Dodgers' only healthy established starter. After him come Hyun-jin Ryu and Brandon McCarthy, who are both coming off significant injuries.
If the Dodgers were to sign Greinke and Price, they'd be making depth a much more minor concern and, more importantly, upgrading from an elite rotation duo to an elite rotation trio.
How good would a trio of Kershaw, Greinke and Price be? Well, it says a lot that Baseball-Reference.com WAR rates them as three of the league's eight best pitchers since 2013:
Things don't look much different if you focus strictly on 2015, as Kershaw, Greinke and Price rated as three of the league's six best pitchers.
In fact, had they been on the same team in 2015, the Dodgers would have been the first team with three starters with ERAs below 2.50 since they did it in 1985. Even more impressive, they would have been only the third team ever with three pitchers worth at least six WAR.
If a Kershaw, Greinke and Price trio becomes a reality, the Dodgers would have a rotation trio that few teams could match up with. This is certainly true of the National League, where the only competitive unit would be the New York Mets' trio of Jacob deGrom, Matt Harvey and Noah Syndergaard.
And lest anyone doubt that the Dodgers need only arrange an elite rotation trio to have a shot at their elusive World Series title, the Mets are a pretty good example to follow.
The Dodgers were the first team the Mets beat on their way to winning the National League pennant, in part because they got excellent pitching out of deGrom, Harvey and Syndergaard. Evidently, that left an impression on Adrian Gonzalez.
"I definitely think that in this day and age you need three front-line starters to go deep in the playoffs," said the Dodgers first baseman, via Dylan Hernandez of the Los Angeles Times.
Granted, this is debatable. The Kansas City Royals didn't need three front-line starters to win the World Series. And as Friedman pointed out to Hernandez, the assorted rosters of this year's postseason were "constructed very differently."
What the Mets showed, however, is that a roster constructed around an elite starting trio is indeed capable of going deep into the postseason as long as it has the right supporting cast. In their case, that meant an offense defined by its depth and one shutdown reliever (Jeurys Familia).
That's a blueprint the Dodgers could follow if they put Greinke and Price behind Kershaw. As we discussed, they already have one shutdown reliever in Jansen, and depth will indeed be their offense's defining feature if it's blessed with good health and a couple of breakout performances. If this formula worked for the Mets, it could work for the Dodgers.
To go for it, all the Dodgers have to do is hand out a couple hundred million bucks. And, really, what's that to them?
It's great to talk about, but I just don't see it as realistic for them to hand out $360M (210 for Price and 150 for Greinke) if not more, when they already have about $175M still due to Kershaw (he'll probably opt-out before getting all of it, but still) and will probably give Jansen a big deal this winter (think 4/50).
i don't either
but it's nice to dream
It is. I guess my "dreams" live a little more in reality, something like Greinke/Price (preference being Greinke now that Anderson took the QO, need a RH) then someone to slot 3rd (Lackey (yes, I know he got a QO) or Leake) and O'Day to man the 8th inning.
Fuck Lackey. Here are the warning signs. In his age 36 season he compiled his best ERA...ever. Also, his most starts since 2010 and most IP since 2007. Fewest runs allowed since 2008 (in 55 more innings) and most K's since 2007. Best ERA+ and FIP since 2007.
He just put together his career year, and his career is all but over. Whoever invests big bucks and years on this guy will regret it.
wow grumpy old racist
We honestly should look at signing Brandon Morrow and putting him in the bullpen
He can be a long reliever basically and pitch 2-3IP if need be which can be really valuable for us
He misses bats at a fairly high rate and if you let him pitch at max effort for an inning or two it could increase.
Orioles GM Dan Duquette just told us that they have the resources to spend and that includes both Chris Davis and a top of rotation starter. They are going to be big players in free agency. Duquette also said he expects free agency to move much more swiftly this off-season because all parties understand the qualifying offer and system much better after the last two years.
— Jim Bowden | ESPN Insider
Another thought about moving Alex Wood to the bullpen should they sign Price/Greinke and someone else. You can never have too much starting pitching, the Dodgers had 16 different starters in 2015, and it isn't like Wood is making a bunch of money ('16 will be his last year of pre-arb), the Nats did the same thing with Tanner Roark last year.
Padres shopping Kemp
The Padres are shopping right-hander Tyson Ross and outfielder Matt Kemp, major league sources tell Rosenthal. Kemp is owed $86MM over the next four years and Rosenthal wonders aloud if the two players could be packaged together in order to facilitate a deal. Ross, 29 in April, is under club control for two more seasons. In 2015, he pitched to a 3.26 ERA with 9.7 K/9 and 3.9 BB/9 across 33 starts. Kemp, meanwhile, posted a .265/.312/.443 slash line that was below his career average with 23 homers in 2015 while playing poor defensively.
what a fucken idiot
Talk about wasting an asset just to dump money, Ross could fetch a few nice prospects on his own, but Kemp would drag the Value down to any NL team.
Hahaha they have to lose Ross to lose kemp. Send him to the sox, they love used up nlw scraps with no D
I remember when a bunch of people were pissed about the return for Kemp last year... guessing the return is not going to be any better if they make a deal now.
Me in particular. I thought another year removed from shoulder surgery and a move to the corner outfield would set Kemp up for a big year.
Totally wrong. Dude is worthless.
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