It struck me today, while thinking about Jackie, on his day...he was the most important, bravest man ever to don a baseball uniform, and one of the most important, bravest men in American history. And of all the names there are in America, it is also the surname of the first black manager in baseball history... Odd that this was the same name in both of these historical, breakthrough moments effecting in all our lives , whether it be the past, present or the future. Forever.
Then there's "Mrs. Robinson". Completely unrelated to civil rights or baseball (I think), but still an important person to many of us
Might be the whole not been American and not really caring enough (or as much, compared to Americans, if you know what I mean) about the history, but if Jackie was a Giant I would be pissed off that we would have to have retired his number. Must suck looking at the outfield wall or wherever the fuck their retired numbers are and seeing a Dodger legend plastered up there. Some men transcend their occupations, Jackie obviously been one. But if he was a Giant, this whole situation would probably piss me off.
Too much class to be a Giant, and as you deftly put it, transcends not only his occupation, but the machinations of BB "business". A long time ago, I remember like it was yesterday, when I saw my favorite player ever, the Duke of Flatbush , wearing another uniform...I couldn't beieve it, and it kind of made me grow up, and put some childish/boyhood things away forever. I know that may sound dumb, and probably is, but it was a turning point in the way I thought about life in certain respects. But, no matter what, there will always be Jackie retiring rather than being a Giant, and that will never change. Way to go, Jackie...
I'm sure there are some fans pissed off about it. But Jackie Robinson does transcend baseball and is regarded as much an American historical figure as he is a baseball player. The truth is, the Giants were one of the first teams to follow suit with African American players 2 years later. And it could have been the Giants who broke the color barrier years earlier considering their longtime manager, John McGraw, was a proponent of integration - the Giants even hired black pitcher, Rube Foster, as a pitching instructor 45 years before Jackie broke into MLB. But yeah, I think this is a case of the historical context overshadowing the teams or rivalries.
hard to say i think most hardcore giants fans get pissed about us getting any extra attention, and vice versa i agree with bz that jackie's story was big in and of itself; baseball just happened to be his chosen (high-profile) profession if jackie had been the first african-american (almost) anything else, it would have most likely been a non-event but back in 1947, baseball was america's game that whole "baseball, hot dogs, apple pie" mantra rang true back then jackie was up on the national stage, front and center, for all to see and judge what he had to endure was horrific, and the temptation to fight back must have been immense personally, i don't see how he did (or more accurately, didn't) do it branch rickey certainly picked the right man for the job and, to be honest, he should also get more recognition for what he did but i digress... had jackie been a giant i would despise the fact that the giants were getting recognition but for jackie, the individual -- regardless of what team/organization he played for -- i would stand up and applaud just happy and proud it was us :soapbox:
I dint think it's a big a deal that he caught a lot of hate and didn't retaliate in kind. Other than the fact he's black. It speaks less of Jackie than it does about the stupidity and evil of our society. Jackie was a good man, how others behave.doesn't change.a good man easily. A bad, evil, or simply dumb man who is not a man would treat people the way a racist does. The active part of the word man is not masculinity as bot men and women are "man" Man = mind in a spiritual sense. Jackie was a man. Racists fans were jungle beasts in round hats and shiny shoes. You have seen other blacks break down when being race baited. Robinson was from a different time and place. Blacks weren't always so defiant. That was worked out of them till most became docile enough for their freedom. The wild bucks and tall poppies all lost their heads to the genetic manipulation we did of blacks here. Of course now in the jungles of concentration cities where they are ghetto fabulized and prepared for a life of confusion, contempt and want. White people are so dumb though. Just like white people come from Africans so do white people over time adopt all things black to the point that whites are hated by other whites for being too much like blacks. Racism is so dumb. It's a race to the death, to the netherland, to hell sinking fast. You get to the north side and as your reward you get trial by fire. Survivors join the Borg or die trying to actually be free to choose who to serve. Your self, country, friends, family, or God. It's way better when you choose for yourself. Either the only win is a trip to the cathacomb tombs down below where all black stones are cut down to size and polished white over years of being completely in the dark waiting for ctulhu to call. Racism is dumb. A little xenophobia is healthy though.
totally disagree had jackie responded in kind it would have shattered everything he was trying to accomplish jackie wasn't just a player, wasn't just a dodger -- he was the sole representative for the black man in baseball it would have given every racist the right to play the "i told you so" card
No. Do you think if Robinson was not a class act and broke down a couple of times that the racists would then be justified to play the card? No way. They ha no right because they are wrong. Wrong at every turn of the situation. And society has programmed people to think from the pov of idiotically superfial racial superiority. For Jackie to be sorta accepted by white America he must be a perfect. And then on only a perfect black that knows his role and shuts up and makes the best of it is tolerated. If you weren't "one of the good blacks" you basically just another nigger back then. Jackie was representing Jackie. To think any other way is as inadvertently racist as saying the first Japanese player represented Asians and if he gets mad getting called a jap Kami loving Hiroshima survivor then that proves that Asians can't handle professional white man baseball. Never mind that Asians were most likely the first whites on the planet. My over all point was that Jackie being Jackie was not about the racists, wasn't about all other blacks. It was just about Jackie being Jackie. A good mind will remain a good man no matter the obstacles placed on him by lesser type of men soon left to the scrapheap of history. And their time is nigh when they will be evolutioned out.
we're just going to have to disagree on this one haven't seen 42 so i don't know if it's in there but there was a point where jackie asked rickey (and i'm paraphrasing from memory) if he wanted to know if he had the courage to fight back, and rickey said no he wanted him to have the courage not to fight back not sure how you can say jackie wasn't representing all the other blacks
It's in the movie. Jackie represented Jackie but he also represented all blacks by being the "first" whether he wanted to represent them all or not. He was under a microscope and like in miranda rights, anything he said can and would be used against him in the court of public opinion. Personally, I'd rather be in a court of law......