meant fair enough for his defense didn't say i necessarily agreed but that's what makes forums interesting if everyone agreed it would get boring here pretty quickly
Does the FO get a small bump up after tonight's win? Or is it a glimpse at our future selves, and winning gets us a small bump down?
Baez, Garcia, Hatcher, Wood...and to a lesser and 'remains to be seen' extent...Kazmir and McCarthy All FO failures. "If this goes right and this goes right and this goes right, we have a real promising group of arms that MIGHT be able to do well!". Yeah, doesn't work. These guys are not good. These are all fringe 5 starters and fringe mop up guys. You bet on their potential, but they've all failed. Over and over again. Take responsibility for it. Oft injured, inconsistent, unproven, and proven bad players. I'm hopping off the bandwagon with the FO. I've defended them to the end on Facebook and here at times. But they deserve every bit of criticism they've gotten. I'm not saying they're the worst, but almost none of their projects are working. Kenley, Kershaw, A Gon, Turner, Seager, etc. were all here before the FO got here. The only redeeming thing they've truly done that stands to this day is Kemp for Grandal. Some other good things but nothing substantial. Ned and Wallach discovering Turner at a Fullerton alumni game is much more impressive than anything the Nerds have done with reclamation projects. Last year, once Ryu went down in ST...they knew for 6 months that Brett freaking Anderson was going to be the game 3 starter in the NLDS and did nothing about it. They had a bullpen to fix and didn't do anything. Or whatever they've done has failed. And the sample size is getting larger. @VRP @doyerfan @IBleedBlue15 ....Tell me where I'm going wrong guys. I have one foot off the bandwagon. Darth's house is in sight and the door is open. I can smell the pork shoulder.
I wouldn't classify us 3 as the biggest FO apologists. I however think that we just look at the overall picture rather than in the moment. It's easy to freak the hell out after a loss, but you can't continually judge a FO from game-to-game like we've been doing. First year under their control the Dodgers made the playoffs. They didn't lose that series because Anderson pitched game 3, they lost because he pitched poorly and the offense sucked for a majority of the series. The Cardinals won a World Series with Jeff Suppan and Jeff fucking Weaver. The Giants did the same with Bumgarner and a bunch of hacks. I've already started questioning a few of the things they've done. Wood hasn't worked out, but I appreciated the idea at the time. Besides, we gave up nothing for him. Baez and Yimi have been here. Tough to cherry-pick the roster. They also made the decision to hang onto Seager btw. McCarthy's elbow blew out; can't predict that. I've definitely been underwhelmed, but I still think they're a hell of a lot better than the old FO and others that don't embrace sabermetrics like the Dbacks' FO. If they don't make the playoffs, with this payroll, shit is going to get interesting. The point though is that it's early May and we go through this shit every year. Wash, rinse, repeat. @THINKBLUE
Not calling you out or saying you 3 are the biggest apologists. I'm an apologist. I tagged you because I respect your opinions and I'm trying to figure out what I might be missing as my faith in these guys starts to dissipate. I tagged you because while many will agree with me, the counterargument is what's truly beneficial imo.
I didn't mean it like you were calling us out, I just know how other people here would interpret it. Too many baseball fans in general act in the moment. It's a long ass season, and you'd think people who have followed the game all of their lives would understand that. I appreciate the civil conversation instead of the usual BS.
To me, "it's a long season" works for A-Gon, Howie, Turner, Joc, Puig (sort 0f). "It's a long season" doesn't work for Wood, Hatcher, Baez, and Yimi, etc. The true core of our long term issues. To me, these are as close to actual failures as you can get. In an underwhelming division, we can definitely tread water until the deadline and then make a push. "It's a long season" works in that regard too. It's not like I, or anyone else, is actually waving the white flag. But the sample size has grown for the bullpen now and it's time to hold the decision makers accountable for this one. And the rotation is getting there too.
here's the thing though and i too respect what you have to say ibb just because the shit rotations the cards and giants had worked doesn't mean we shouldn't try to put together better rotations than those if they didn't go after a top starter because they didn't want to block urias/deleon, then fine... i get that but there's no excuse imo for not improving the bullpen they knew it was a weakness and did nothing to address the problem not only are baez and hatcher shit, but jp can't seem to get out of his own way sitting under .500 with shitty starters/relievers irritates the fuck out of me and now with the offense struggling (on most nights) it seems like we have even more holes no excuse for getting swept by shit teams like the marins and losing 2/3 to the fucken padres imagine the carnage we'll incur when we face good teams like the cubs/mets/nats i realize it's early and divisions can't be won in may but i don't hold much faith that this team -- as currently constructed -- can turn things around even if they were to somehow win the pathetic nl west they'd get jettisoned quickly and easily in the lds yes i get more emotional after tough losses its just fucken frustrating
I got cigars, old fucking scotch and we can take turns ramming a crowbar up caitlynbluedodger's ass (yeah, I know he likes it but in theory he shouldn't)
I don't disagree with a lot of what both of you are saying. I just don't think it's the end of the world, yet.
I look at it this way.... For a couple years, it was so obvious we were only a starter and a reliever away from being dominant and it didn't happen. Now, we are half a roto, most of the BP and probably a big bat away. This represents regression. We all saw it like a neon sign and still do. WTF is wrong with the Nerds? OH, and we didn't give up nothing for Wood, we gave up 22 million dollars that could have gone into Price's and a reliever's pocket last season, even if he was a rental it would have been money better spent. This year, they pissed away another 15.8 million on Anderson when he called their bluff, knowing he was hurt. Wouldn't you rather see Zimerman than Kazmir if you add in Anderson's wasted salary? I mean fuck, they didn't even sign Kazmir till they knew for sure Ryu was going to take longer to be back. They weren't going to do anything!!!!! Say what you want about Ned because of AndrUw Jones and Juan Pierre but he was never such a patsy at a bargaining table as these fucking hacks. They act like dumb cunts with daddy's credit card trying to find hidden Baccarat crystal buying all the shit inventory in a 99 cent store.
Damn. Truth I didn't necessarily want Price, but I get what you're saying. They piss away a lot of money. There is method to the madness, and they've been able to use dead money as currency in trades to keep our prospects, but in the end we don't have much to show for it on the major league roster. It's also true what you say about being FURTHER from a championship than when this whole thing started.
Too many chefs in the kitchen? I'm all for collaboration, and I'll never know the dynamics of a FO, but it seems like a cluster**** from the (way) outside looking in. Like OJ's dream team.
Except OJ's dream team won, and that's because they actually were that good and reacted appropriately in the moment. These guys seriously seem like deer in the headlights which is bizarre considering 2 of them were GM's before.
